Bottled cloister question

OhioGuy <none.DeleteThis@none.net> sent:
> When using a bottled cloister, if you have two of them, can you only play
> one? How would having a second one in play change anything? The card
> basically lets you remove your hand from the game during opponents' turns,
> and in exchange you get to draw an extra card each turn.

Bottled Cloister {4} Artifact
/ At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, remove your hand from the
game face down.
/ At the beginning of your upkeep, return all cards you own removed
from the game with Bottled Cloister to your hand, then draw a card.

There's nothing preventing you from playing more than one Bottled
Cloister spell per game or per turn. There's nothing preventing more
than one from being in play, it's not Legendary.

If you have two in play, then they both trigger at the beginning of
each opponent's upkeep. They both tell you to remove your hand from
the game face down. Make sure you note which Bottled Cloister's
ability removes which cards each time.

At the beginning of your upkeep, each Bottled Cloister triggers and
gives you back the cards that it removed from the game, and you draw a
card. You get two extra cards this way each time round, one from each
Bottled Cloister.

You're no more vulnerable to spot removal of the artifact than you were
with just one Bottled Cloister - whichever one is the one that removed
the hand from the game is the one that is likely to be destroyed.
Obviously mass removal is going to take out both, leaving you with no
cards in hand and no extra card draws.

Did you have a specific strategic point in mind?

--
-- zoe
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

> Did you have a specific strategic point in mind?

Mostly I was just wondering if it would be worth putting 2 of these in a
deck, or if I should only put 1. When playing my red deck, I'm always
running out of cards. I have virtually no "defense", so I don't need to
play cards when it is someone else's turn. I just need a way to draw cards
faster and get them played on my turn.

I just wasn't sure if two of them would help me do it twice as fast, or if
they would be redundant. I guess I'll put both in the deck.
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

OhioGuy <none DeleteThis @none.net> sent:
> > Did you have a specific strategic point in mind?

> Mostly I was just wondering if it would be worth putting 2 of these in a
> deck, or if I should only put 1. When playing my red deck, I'm always
> running out of cards. I have virtually no "defense", so I don't need to
> play cards when it is someone else's turn. I just need a way to draw cards
> faster and get them played on my turn.

That seems like a sensible way to use them; most of the time, they
won't be removing any cards.

> I just wasn't sure if two of them would help me do it twice as fast, or if
> they would be redundant. I guess I'll put both in the deck.

Let us know how it goes, and whether there are other card-drawing
strategies that work out too.

--
-- zoe
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If the first bottled cloister would remove my
hand from the game, then what would be left for the second bottled cloister
to remove?

> game"... which gives you the key to why you might want to have more than
> one
> out: each one keeps SEPARATE track of which cards it has removed. And each
> one
> triggers separately as your opponents' upkeep(s) start, effectively giving
> you
> the choice of which one to put your current hand "under" (since you choose
> how triggered abilities you control get ordered on the stack, when they
> are
> going on it at the same time). If you have some way to draw a card (or
> more)
> between the two resolutions on opponent's upkeep, in fact, you could put
> cards under each one...
>
> Dave
> --
> \/David DeLaney posting from dbd.RemoveThis@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the
> flower
> It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone
> to see
> Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET
> VRbeable<BLINK>
> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all
> CAPS! --K.
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

>> each one keeps SEPARATE track of which cards it has removed. And each one
>> triggers separately as your opponents' upkeep(s) start, effectively giving
>> you
>> the choice of which one to put your current hand "under" (since you choose
>> how triggered abilities you control get ordered on the stack, when they are
>> going on it at the same time). If you have some way to draw a card (or more)
>> between the two resolutions on opponent's upkeep, in fact, you could put
>> cards under each one...

On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 22:14:48 -0500, OhioGuy <none.TakeThisOut@none.net> wrote:
> Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If the first bottled cloister would remove my
>hand from the game, then what would be left for the second bottled cloister
>to remove?

Any cards you had drawn between the time the first one's ability resolved and
the second one's did. That might well be "none at all", of course, in which
case there's nothing extra for the second one to keep track of this time.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd.TakeThisOut@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

OhioGuy <none DeleteThis @none.net> sent:

[Dave DeLaney]

> > game"... which gives you the key to why you might want to have more than
> > one
> > out: each one keeps SEPARATE track of which cards it has removed. And each
> > one
> > triggers separately as your opponents' upkeep(s) start, effectively giving
> > you
> > the choice of which one to put your current hand "under" (since you choose
> > how triggered abilities you control get ordered on the stack, when they
> > are
> > going on it at the same time). If you have some way to draw a card (or
> > more)
> > between the two resolutions on opponent's upkeep, in fact, you could put
> > cards under each one...
> >

> Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If the first bottled cloister would remove my
> hand from the game, then what would be left for the second bottled cloister
> to remove?

If you had a way to draw a card inbetween the two Bottled Cloister
triggered abilities resolving, then you could end up with cards under
both Bottled Cloisters. For example, you could play the ability on
Jayemdae Tome ({4}, {T}: Draw a card.) inbetween:

Beginning of opponent's upkeep, both Bottles Cloisters trigger.
Put both abilities on the stack.

[Bottled Cloister A ability 1, Bottled Cloister B ability 1]

Everyone passes, first ability resolves. You remove your hand
from the game face down. Now your opponent gets priority, as
something just resolved. Once he or she passes priority to you,
you can play Jayemdae Tome's ability:

[Bottled Cloister A ability 1, Jayemdae Tome ability]

You pass, opponent passes, ability resolves and you draw a card.
Opponent gets priority, passes, you pass, Bottled Cloister ability
resolves, you remove the card in your hand from the game face down.

When you get to the beginning of your upkeep, you'll get the cards back
from each Bottled Cloister separately, and each time you get back a
particular set of cards, you draw a card.

As to why you might want to do this - well, there are a few things that
depend on the number of cards in your hand. It could be relevant if
you want to make your Maro unblockable by using the forecast ability of
a Writ of Passage that you drew with the Jayemdae Tome, perhaps. I'm
sure there are better examples. Sometimes it's just a matter of
knowing that you have the option.

--
-- zoe
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question 

Zoe Stephenson <usenet DeleteThis @daeghnao.com> wrote:
>OhioGuy <none DeleteThis @none.net> sent:
>> > each one keeps SEPARATE track of which cards it has removed. And each
>> > one
>> > triggers separately as your opponents' upkeep(s) start, effectively giving
>> > you
>> > the choice of which one to put your current hand "under" (since you choose
>> > how triggered abilities you control get ordered on the stack, when they
>> > are going on it at the same time). If you have some way to draw a card (or
>> > more)
>> > between the two resolutions on opponent's upkeep, in fact, you could put
>> > cards under each one...
>
>> Hmm, I'm not sure I follow. If the first bottled cloister would remove my
>> hand from the game, then what would be left for the second bottled cloister
>> to remove?
>
>If you had a way to draw a card inbetween the two Bottled Cloister
>triggered abilities resolving, then you could end up with cards under
>both Bottled Cloisters.

Alternately, if you're playing in a game with more than one opponent (and a
way to draw cards some time during one opponent's turn), you could order them
on first_opponent's turn so that Cloister A removed your hand (leaving nothing
for Cloister B to remove shortly afterwards), then draw some cards during that
player's turn, then on second_opponent's turn have Cloister B be the first to
resolve so it gets to remove what's _then_ in your hand (leaving Cloister A
nothing more to add). Then when it gets back to your turn you'd get cards
back, and an additional card drawn, from each one.

>When you get to the beginning of your upkeep, you'll get the cards back
>from each Bottled Cloister separately, and each time you get back a
>particular set of cards, you draw a card.

Yep.

>As to why you might want to do this - well, there are a few things that
>depend on the number of cards in your hand. It could be relevant if
>you want to make your Maro unblockable by using the forecast ability of
>a Writ of Passage that you drew with the Jayemdae Tome, perhaps. I'm
>sure there are better examples. Sometimes it's just a matter of
>knowing that you have the option.

And/or you could know that one of the opponents could destroy one Cloister,
but not two, and make him want to have to choose between groups of cards to
say "these aren't ever coming back to your hand" for. (He won't know WHICH
cards exactly are under which Cloister, since they're removed face-down, but
he'll know "this one has the cards that got removed at this time, while that
one has the cards that got removed at the other time".)

Or you could just like doing complicated stuff.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd DeleteThis @vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 >> Stay informed about: Bottled cloister question