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Battlecruiser vs. Carrier

 
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Jon

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Since: May 17, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:33 am
Post subject: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier
Archived from groups: alt>games>starcraft (more info?)

I just have a question about the typical battlecruiser versus carrier
scenario. I realize there are numerous sources online that address
this question, but I find that they are rather general, and deal more
about conventional battle scenarios, rather than the one that I am
curious about.

My friend and I were recently discussing an instance in which a
battlecruiser and a carrier were battling one on one, both fully
upgraded. I am convinced that the battlecruiser would win given its
greater attack speed and health, not to mention its yamato guns.
Interceptors are also easily killed off. But my friend countered that
with the carriers greater speed and attack range, one could control a
carrier to always be effectively out of range of the battlecruiser
while at the same time attacking the battlecruiser sporadically. He
even went so far as to say that a carrier could move out of the range
of a charging yamato gun if one knew, in effect, the distance on the
screen at which the yamato gun's range is at a max (8 or 9 squares if
I remember correctly) since it takes around for seconds for it to
charge.
Notwithstanding the fact that for most people such control would mean
ignoring all other aspects of a game, is my friend correct in his
assumption? I thought that the yamato gun always hits once it begins
charging and that the time it took for a carrier to turn around and
run would not be enough anyway. I also thought that a carrier would
not be able to effectively use hit-and-run tactics against a lone
battlecruiser, since the interceptors have such a long deployment
time, and carrier are only mediocre against other air units anyway.

So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
(1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
how?
(2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
unit away.

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Spyderizer

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Since: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 108



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Jon wrote:

> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> how?

Possibly... We have tested the theory, I don't recall the result though.

> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> unit away.


From what I recall, moving doesn't have any effect once the yamato
canon starts charging, the game mechanics will guide the shot to its
target regardless of position. I'm not sure if that's still the case if
you use something like recall or the canals.

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Luc The Perverse

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Since: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 721



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jon" <dinitrate.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179453466.827935.227160@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> It would be easy to setup a test.
>> So someone less lazy than me go do it
> Thanks guys.
> That's pretty much what I thought the result would be.
> Unfortunately, the only time we tested BC vs. Car was a direct
> assault, during which the BC would obviously win.
> My friend is not available to test his hit-and-run theory. If he does
> in fact have such awesome control.

Unless you guys are playing BGH!!nr20mins - it shouldn't be "just carriers
on BCs". There should be some support units, Ghosts, High Templars, Science
Vessel - maybe a shield battery etc.

Usually if I am making a carrier fleet - I will have one or two shield
batteries to run back to for recharging purposes. (Of course I usually lose
too - so what do I know.)

I made a test map once where you have a number of rounds in which you are
greatly outnumbered for firepower, but you had a series of caster units that
you could use to defend and attack with. (A sort of 1 player micro practice
map.)

I practiced things like lockdown - but some of the most amazing results came
from doing weird stuff, like putting a defensive matrix on a pair of
firebats - stim packing them and then having them take hits while marines
pwned lings.

--
LTP

Smile
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Jon

External


Since: May 17, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On May 24, 1:24 pm, "Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality"
<i_hate_s... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Jon" <dinitr... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179387227.008384.71360@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> > (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> > how?
>
> Generally, no. You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle
> cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the
> carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would
> just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
> I would hope this goes without saying but I guess I'll mention it,
> anyways. Against most types of units, the carrier has more damage
> throughput than the battle cruiser so, in many ways, it's a more powerful
> unit. However, it doesn't do as well against heavily armoured units as the
> battle cruiser does...
>
> > (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> > could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> > carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> > unit away.
>
> I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
> No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun. Once the yamato gun has been cast on
> a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is. Even if you were to
> recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the
> entire map to hit it...

Wow. I didn't know that. Thanks.
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Just Another Victim of th

External


Since: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Jon" <dinitrate.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179387227.008384.71360@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> how?

Generally, no. You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle
cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the
carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would
just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
I would hope this goes without saying but I guess I'll mention it,
anyways. Against most types of units, the carrier has more damage
throughput than the battle cruiser so, in many ways, it's a more powerful
unit. However, it doesn't do as well against heavily armoured units as the
battle cruiser does...


> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> unit away.

I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun. Once the yamato gun has been cast on
a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is. Even if you were to
recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the
entire map to hit it...
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MuuMiMan

External


Since: Mar 31, 2005
Posts: 342



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER "Just
Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hate_spam RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR SCREEN!!!!:
>
>> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
>> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
>> how?
>
> Generally, no. You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle
>cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the
>carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would
>just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...

Actually, the Carrier is a good 30-50% or so faster than the BC and
has better acceleration. It can outrun the BC easily.
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Luc The Perverse

External


Since: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 721



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"MuuMiMan" <ihatespamandyoumustremovethisinordertoreplymuumi.DeleteThis@mbnet.fi> wrote
in message news:rahe5399ea2sid2rf2cqt1jq089p9h271u@4ax.com...
> IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER "Just
> Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hate_spam.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR SCREEN!!!!:
>>
>>> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
>>> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
>>> how?
>>
>> Generally, no. You can try to get the interceptors to attack the
>> battle
>>cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but
>>the
>>carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser
>>would
>>just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
>
> Actually, the Carrier is a good 30-50% or so faster than the BC and
> has better acceleration. It can outrun the BC easily.
>

But . . . It cannot acquire targets while moving - and it has an insanely
high interceptor deploy time - so you wouldn't be able to do anything like
the vulture run and shoot. If you are just trying to run away then it
would be fine - but it seems useless for micromanaging a battle

--
LTP

Smile
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Luc The Perverse

External


Since: Jun 20, 2005
Posts: 721



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hate_spam.DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
wrote in message news:fwm5i.561672$c62.57727@fe07.news.easynews.com...
>> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
>> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
>> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
>> unit away.
>
> I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
> No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun. Once the yamato gun has been cast
> on a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is. Even if you were
> to recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the
> entire map to hit it...

It's kinda like trying to advance your pawn two spaces to escape capture
from an enemy pawn. You just can't do it!

However - this thread was kinda pissing me off - so I decided to do some
tests with Carrier versus BC to find out.

I found out that a fully upgraded carrier can be defeated by an unupgraded
BC (with Yamato gun) if properly micromanaged. The secret is to deploy the
yamato after the shields of the carrier are depleted. After I realized
that - making further comparisons seemed a little silly.

I have sent a copy of my report and some extended notes to Overwind to add
to his SC site - if he decides they are good enough. (We tried to post the
file I sent him directly - but until further notice we are having technical
difficulties)

--
LTP

Smile
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wkhaiaun




Joined: Oct 07, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]

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yellobose




Joined: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 3



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]

i would like to think the carrier would win
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goomba




Joined: Oct 14, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:54 am
Post subject: Re: Battlecruiser vs. Carrier [Login to view extended thread Info.]

here is the rundown:
the two ships are very close in ability in 1v1s. each armor point the BC gets lowers the carrier's damage by 8 (1 for each fighter), however this also means that a carrier with even just +1 on damage will kill a BC, so carrier with full upgrades totally destroys a BC, i dunno why you think a BC wins against an upgraded carrier. it doesn't.
your friend is right about its speed+ attack range, but wrong about the yamato gun. once the charge up process starts, it will hit, unless the carrier is recalled away or put in arbiter stasis (no the yamato shot doesn't travel across the map to hit it, that's retarded)
in a micro-heavy BC vs carrier fight, the carrier will get yamatoed and probably take a few laser hits, but it should win. the fighters don't have to redeploy because carrier can move while attacking, so once they're out, they stay out. the BC cannot destroy its fighters and will die eventually, before it can recharge and even if it does recharge, reshielded carrier can run. charge shields, and then survive a second yamato hit, then finish BC off)
with micro, carrier wins.
with upgrade, carrier wins
without micro, BC wins.
in mass equal groups, yamato-equipped, BCs can win, by targetting carriers with yamatos and holding back to destroy fighters.
we've had massive battles with both BCs and carriers. BCs are scary in groups, but if terran isn't paying attention, carriers will pwn them, and the arbiter's stasis makes the battle pretty one-sided, so carriers are worth their cost if it goes cap ship.
all in all the two units are well-balanced. they are especially amazing used together, with BCs anti-unit and carriers anti-base.
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