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Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 c..

 
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Swam Mollen

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Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:27 am
Post subject: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller?
Archived from groups: alt>games>video>xbox, others (more info?)

Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
equivalent.

Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.

as for wether Rumble is a necessary featre - I beleive it is.
Consider this:
You run off the road ontot he hard shoulder in a racing game. What's
the best way to notice this? Rumble.

You get clipped by the car behind you. Rumble tells you it's you and
not someone else in the game.

Take Metal Gear Solid series for another example. The rumble gives you
feedback about his heartbeat, telling you what state of health he is
in.

or take a FPS like Halo - you can FEEL when you have been hit.
OK, they have ways of putting this information up on screen, but isn't
Next Gen gaming about Stripping away meters and gagues - as in Fight
Night round 3, or PGR3?

Immersing you in the experience?

So - well done Sony for removing one of the best things in modern games
pads.

What else is missing?

An audio jack for wireless comms.

Where does one plug in a cheap headset? The USB port? That means the
audio A-D conversion is going to be done in the headset, and will make
it more expensive!

The 360 controller has it built right in from the start!

Well done Sony, you've screwed up simply to add a half-arsed late-added
feature that only a small number of games can take advantage of
effectively.

Copy Wii, look like poo.

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Swam Mollen

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Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

o wrote:
> Swam Mollen wrote:

> > Where does one plug in a cheap headset? The USB port? That means the
> > audio A-D conversion is going to be done in the headset, and will make
> > it more expensive!
>
> Are they not using a Bluetooth headset, similar to what you would find
> in a mobile phone headset.

Of course, but how does one identify which ehadset goes with which
controller?

A game with 2 people on 1 PS3 playing cross-network with 2 others on
another PS3 are going to have trouble if they are only able to use one
BT headset.

Sure, you can pair it up, and assign an ID to each headset, but it
lacks the elegence of the 360's solution.


>
>
> >
> > The 360 controller has it built right in from the start!
> >
> > Well done Sony, you've screwed up simply to add a half-arsed late-added
> > feature that only a small number of games can take advantage of
> > effectively.
> >
> > Copy Wii, look like poo.
>
> You know the patent for the PS3 controller technology was filed in 1999.

I'm sure it was, but why only use it after the Wii was anounced, and
not tell your biggest. develioper with your biggest game until a day or
two before it's announced???

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SpanishTeacher

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Since: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 123



(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Sure, you can pair it up, and assign an ID to each headset, but it
lacks the elegence of the 360's solution. "


Which is to tether it to the controller with a wire? Elegant. Is that
why the best and most expensive headset for the 360 is a wireless one?
Get a clue.
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Swam Mollen

External


Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:46 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

SpanishTeacher wrote:
> "Sure, you can pair it up, and assign an ID to each headset, but it
> lacks the elegence of the 360's solution. "
>
>
> Which is to tether it to the controller with a wire? Elegant.

You are a fool. Firstly, it may be teathered to the controller, but
seeing as it's in your hands during play, and that it is wreless, it's
far better than having to buy a Bluetooth headset to do the same thing
(and considering the headset is FREE with the Premium 360,...).

Secondly, simply plugging it into the controller is all you have to do
to get your own audio-channel in a game - which is auto-assigned by the
360.


> Is that
> why the best and most expensive headset for the 360 is a wireless one?
> Get a clue.

Or perhaps it's not the best, just the most convenient, and rather than
simply using a standard bluetooth headset, they had to include things
like showing which position it's in (1, 2, 3, or 4) in relation to the
joypad, and make sure the battery life isn't crazy.

Anyway, you are an idiot.
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Swam Mollen

External


Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:19 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

o wrote:
> Swam Mollen wrote:
> > o wrote:
> >
> >>> Of course, but how does one identify which ehadset goes with which
> >>> controller?
> >> That's a good point - I've no idea. How are Microsoft going to do it
> >> because the wire does annoy me a bit.
> >
> > They have a button similar to the 360 pad, so I am lead to beleive
> > (listen to Major Nelsons latest podcast).
>
> Sony will have a similar approach no doubt.

Of course, but the point is, you wont be using a standard bluetooth
headset to acheive this.
>
> So why did you make the comment below in your original reply, surely
> there's no difference

There is no cheap/free solution that is easy to use, as there is with
the 360.


> >
> > There's no feedback for this kind of thing on standard BT headset
> > unless Sony sells a propriety peice of hardare, just like MS have done.
>
> Sorry, I'm not quite grasping what's different about Xbox 360's wireless
> headset thats coming out soon and Sony's Bluetooth headset?

A standard bluetooth headset was what we were talking about, not some
unnanounced Sony product.


> Don't they both need to be paired with a controller in some manner ?

Yes, but as I said, the 360 has a more elegant solution out of the box.


> >
> >
> > Sony simply copied, rather than innovated. Tilt control has been around
> > for a long, long time, too.
>
> So what's the patent for?

I'm sure you can find 10000s of patents that Sony and others have filed
for. THey dont' necessarily use them in actual products though.


>
> >
> > The main reason I doubt they used it, is that it's not all that good as
> > a general-purpose controller mechanism.
>
> Well that's a bit of an assumption to make isn't it.

OK, how is tilt going to be of any use in:
FPS games.
Fighting Games.
Puzzle games.

I can only see it being of use in flight sims and vehicle based games
and Monkeyball.


It doesn't actually ADD anything to the game, it's simply another
analogue method of controlling things. If anything, it will DETRACT as
you will have to hold the pad DEAD STRAIGHT to stop things from
happening unexpectedly, or else the sensetivity has to be turned right
down.


However, just seeing people use the Wii Controller tells you that they
have thought it through far more thoroughly - using it single handed,
as a 3d pointer is far, far more inovative and useful to game design.
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wolfing1

External


Since: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 178



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 9:47 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Swam Mollen wrote:
> Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
> technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
> Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
> equivalent.
>
> Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
> battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.
>
No dude, the reason why they dropped it is because they lost a lawsuit
against some other company that claims they 'invented' the rumble
thing. M$oft and Nintendo didn't fight and decided to settle and pay
royalties, while Sony fought and lost, it was a bitter fight, and the
other company decided to forbid Sony from using the technology...
something like that
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Jonah Falcon

External


Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 4541



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:13 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> You know the patent for the PS3 controller technology was filed in 1999.

But only one game sort-of uses it. lol

Meanwhile, all 27 titles for the Wii used motion sensor tech fully
integrated. lol
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o

External


Since: May 22, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Swam Mollen wrote:
> Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
> technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
> Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
> equivalent.
>
> Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
> battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.
>
> as for wether Rumble is a necessary featre - I beleive it is.
> Consider this:
> You run off the road ontot he hard shoulder in a racing game. What's
> the best way to notice this? Rumble.
>
> You get clipped by the car behind you. Rumble tells you it's you and
> not someone else in the game.
>
> Take Metal Gear Solid series for another example. The rumble gives you
> feedback about his heartbeat, telling you what state of health he is
> in.
>
> or take a FPS like Halo - you can FEEL when you have been hit.
> OK, they have ways of putting this information up on screen, but isn't
> Next Gen gaming about Stripping away meters and gagues - as in Fight
> Night round 3, or PGR3?
>
> Immersing you in the experience?
>
> So - well done Sony for removing one of the best things in modern games
> pads.
>
> What else is missing?
>
> An audio jack for wireless comms.
>
> Where does one plug in a cheap headset? The USB port? That means the
> audio A-D conversion is going to be done in the headset, and will make
> it more expensive!

Are they not using a Bluetooth headset, similar to what you would find
in a mobile phone headset.


>
> The 360 controller has it built right in from the start!
>
> Well done Sony, you've screwed up simply to add a half-arsed late-added
> feature that only a small number of games can take advantage of
> effectively.
>
> Copy Wii, look like poo.

You know the patent for the PS3 controller technology was filed in 1999.
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Swam Mollen

External


Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Brenden D. Chase

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Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 169



(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Swam Mollen" <bigboobs_linda DeleteThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148304426.908509.221370@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

is that your new line?? "Well done"


??
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Brenden D. Chase

External


Since: May 08, 2006
Posts: 169



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 6:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Swam Mollen" <bigboobs_linda RemoveThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148335964.864822.266520@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ???
>

You said it in another thread, I think it was about mouse and keyboard.
"well done"
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Zackman

External


Since: Oct 04, 2004
Posts: 663



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 8:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Hank the Rapper <xflopgoon.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> spake thusly:

> No, I don't and so what? It isn't worth having the carpel tunnel
> flair up, which only happens when I have vibration enabled.

You can get carpal tunnel from chronic masturbation? Wink

-Z-
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Swam Mollen

External


Since: Jan 07, 2006
Posts: 88



(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon May 22, 2006 11:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Skykid wrote:
> Swam Mollen wrote:
> > Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
> > technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
> > Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
> > equivalent.
> >
> > Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
> > battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.
>
> Complete and utter nonsense.

Complete and utter nonsense right back at ya.

> The N64 had a rumble feature that ran on
> AAA batteries and lasted forever.

On a bog standard wired controller.
On a wireless controlelr that featured no bluetooth.

> The reason why there is no rumble
> feature in the PS3 controller is because of the current injunction that
> Sony is facing with Immersion.

SPECULATION.

>Sony could not use the technology in the
> new controller for the PS3.

What injunction? The one stopping the Dual Shock 2 from being sold?


> Because an injunction is in place, Sony can
> continue to sell the PS2 controllers.

If an injunction is in place, they would not be able to sell ANY
controller until they prove the Dual Shock 2 doesnt infringe patents.


> Sony could easily add the rumble
> feature to the PS3 controller and have it run off of a battery
> (rechargeable).

Yes, they could, but it woudl drain far faster than otherwise.

>
> Where do you get the idea that Bluetooth is battery hungry? The wireless
> protocol was developed to be very low power which is why it's main
> application is with wireless devices such as cell phones.

Have you EVER used BlueTooth keyboards, mice, joysticks?

I've owned 3 BlueTooth mice, different manufacturers - in each case,
they have roughly HALF the battery life of an equivalent digital
cordless mouse that uses proprietry technology.

BT may have been developed as a protocol for cellphones and peripherals
to interconnect, but that does not prvent it from being more power
hungry than other connection methods.


>
> Regards,
> SK
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Skykid

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Since: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 46



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:14 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Swam Mollen wrote:
> Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
> technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
> Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
> equivalent.
>
> Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
> battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.

Complete and utter nonsense. The N64 had a rumble feature that ran on
AAA batteries and lasted forever. The reason why there is no rumble
feature in the PS3 controller is because of the current injunction that
Sony is facing with Immersion. Sony could not use the technology in the
new controller for the PS3. Because an injunction is in place, Sony can
continue to sell the PS2 controllers. Sony could easily add the rumble
feature to the PS3 controller and have it run off of a battery
(rechargeable).

Where do you get the idea that Bluetooth is battery hungry? The wireless
protocol was developed to be very low power which is why it's main
application is with wireless devices such as cell phones.

Regards,
SK
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CJ

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Since: Feb 10, 2006
Posts: 75



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:11 am
Post subject: Re: Battery life the real reason Rumble taken out of the PS3 controller? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Swam Mollen" <bigboobs_linda RemoveThis @lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1148364639.142312.325900@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Skykid wrote:
>> Swam Mollen wrote:
>> > Bluetooth is notoriously battery hungry compared to other wireless
>> > technologies - compare a typical Logitech RF wireless mouse to it's
>> > Bluetooth equivalent, or a Microsoft bluetooth keyboard to a RF
>> > equivalent.
>> >
>> > Rumble is also battery hungry - so combine the two, and you have a
>> > battery that just slips away in no time before it's dead.
>>
>> Complete and utter nonsense.
>
> Complete and utter nonsense right back at ya.
>
>> The N64 had a rumble feature that ran on
>> AAA batteries and lasted forever.
>
> On a bog standard wired controller.
> On a wireless controlelr that featured no bluetooth.
>
>> The reason why there is no rumble
>> feature in the PS3 controller is because of the current injunction that
>> Sony is facing with Immersion.
>
> SPECULATION.
>
>>Sony could not use the technology in the
>> new controller for the PS3.
>
> What injunction? The one stopping the Dual Shock 2 from being sold?
>
>
>> Because an injunction is in place, Sony can
>> continue to sell the PS2 controllers.
>
> If an injunction is in place, they would not be able to sell ANY
> controller until they prove the Dual Shock 2 doesnt infringe patents.

You have this completely backwards. The injunction that is in place was
gained by Sony so they don't have to stop selling Dual Shock while the
verdict, and $90 million judgment, is on appeal. It's no different than any
other injunction gained in an American court by a company that loses a large
case and has a large verdict rendered against it on which they immediately
file notice of appeal. The courts understand that if Sony (and any other
major company that loses a lawsuit) were to lose this case, they'd have to
stop selling Dual Shock (or whatever product) and pull whatever merchandise
is already on store shelves. This would completely upset their business
model, and more than likely send their stock price tumbling for a bit. So to
avoid this business and stock market chaos, the court allows Sony to
continue to seek a legal remedy, or a settlement with Immersion, to get out
of this. This kind of injunction is quite common in cases where a large
company loses a lawsuit. They aren't out of legal options for appeals yet.

The president of Immersion last week came out and said he's offered Sony
help to put rumble in the PS3 controllers. He indicated that it wouldn't
really be all that difficult of a problem to solve and still have motion
sensing capabilities. He said Sony has refused the help of course, because
they'd have to drop the appeal and pay Immersion (and its minority owner
Microsoft) the $90 million plus legally license the technology.
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