Very Basic Decks: Black

That would be, what, 13 or 14?

I went with 17 because I understand that 17 is about the proper number
of lands for a 40 card draft deck. Of course, those are generally 2 or
3 colors, so maybe thats it.

I usually run 38%, or 24 in a 60 card deck. I guess that turns into 15
in a 40 card deck.

I'll take another look. I was thinking about throwing a non-Aura
enchantment into each deck...

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

"Risser" <peterrisser.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133108052.390041.182730@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 17 swamp
> 4 terror
> 4 unholy strength
> 4 drudge skeletons
> 4 scathe zombies
> 4 severed legion
> 1 hypnotic specter
> 1 nightmare
> 1 abyssal specter
>
> Terror is removal and fear is evasion, especially since you are
> unlikely to play against another black deck. The skeletons are iconic
> and regeneration is relatively easy to explain. There's a little
> flying in the higher eschelons. These guys introduce triggered
> abilities, with the discarding specters, but again, I didn't think it'd
> be too difficult to explain. The Nightmare also flies (fear would be
> better, I think), and counting Swamps isn't too hard. Finally Unholy
> Strength is a basic pumper. It was that or Shade's Form, but I didn't
> like the color-switch.

Terror isn't bad as removal, but my issue is that it doesn't hit black OR
artifacts. That being said, is there only going to be one copy of each deck,
or does everyone get a chance to play whatever colour they want? For
black-on-black, Terror is a wasted card. As all the decks run creatures, why
not try something like Vicious Hunger? Your other option, of course, would
be to go to something like Drain Life/Consume Spirit/Corrupt, or something
fun like an animation card

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

Risser wrote:
> 17 swamp
> 4 terror
> 4 unholy strength
> 4 drudge skeletons
> 4 scathe zombies
> 4 severed legion
> 1 hypnotic specter
> 1 nightmare
> 1 abyssal specter
>
> Terror is removal and fear is evasion, especially since you are
> unlikely to play against another black deck. The skeletons are iconic
> and regeneration is relatively easy to explain. There's a little
> flying in the higher eschelons. These guys introduce triggered
> abilities, with the discarding specters, but again, I didn't think it'd
> be too difficult to explain. The Nightmare also flies (fear would be
> better, I think), and counting Swamps isn't too hard. Finally Unholy
> Strength is a basic pumper. It was that or Shade's Form, but I didn't
> like the color-switch.
>
> Peter

I might try finding room for Raise Dead in there myself - very basic
effect (just swap it for a creature in the graveyard) and it gives a
feel for black's abilities. Would Foul Imp or Fledgling Djinn's
triggered life loss make them too complex for the deck? I think there
has to be a better simple flyer option than Nightmare, but I'm drawing
a blank at the moment - iconic as it is, Sengir Vampire is too complex.
How about Skyshroud Vampire? That's a straightforward pump effect.

Philip Bowles
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

<pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1134629387.433800.172630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Risser wrote:
> > 17 swamp
> > 4 terror
> > 4 unholy strength
> > 4 drudge skeletons
> > 4 scathe zombies
> > 4 severed legion
> > 1 hypnotic specter
> > 1 nightmare
> > 1 abyssal specter
> >
> > Terror is removal and fear is evasion, especially since you are
> > unlikely to play against another black deck. The skeletons are iconic
> > and regeneration is relatively easy to explain. There's a little
> > flying in the higher eschelons. These guys introduce triggered
> > abilities, with the discarding specters, but again, I didn't think it'd
> > be too difficult to explain. The Nightmare also flies (fear would be
> > better, I think), and counting Swamps isn't too hard. Finally Unholy
> > Strength is a basic pumper. It was that or Shade's Form, but I didn't
> > like the color-switch.
> >
> > Peter
>
> I might try finding room for Raise Dead in there myself - very basic
> effect (just swap it for a creature in the graveyard) and it gives a
> feel for black's abilities. Would Foul Imp or Fledgling Djinn's
> triggered life loss make them too complex for the deck? I think there
> has to be a better simple flyer option than Nightmare, but I'm drawing
> a blank at the moment - iconic as it is, Sengir Vampire is too complex.
> How about Skyshroud Vampire? That's a straightforward pump effect.

Simple fliers like Bog Imp or Dusk Imp maybe?

-------
Clayton
Random Rhapsodist

Random Tagline:
BAMF!
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

Clayton wrote:
> <pbowles.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1134629387.433800.172630@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Risser wrote:
> > > 17 swamp
> > > 4 terror
> > > 4 unholy strength
> > > 4 drudge skeletons
> > > 4 scathe zombies
> > > 4 severed legion
> > > 1 hypnotic specter
> > > 1 nightmare
> > > 1 abyssal specter
> > >
> > > Terror is removal and fear is evasion, especially since you are
> > > unlikely to play against another black deck. The skeletons are iconic
> > > and regeneration is relatively easy to explain. There's a little
> > > flying in the higher eschelons. These guys introduce triggered
> > > abilities, with the discarding specters, but again, I didn't think it'd
> > > be too difficult to explain. The Nightmare also flies (fear would be
> > > better, I think), and counting Swamps isn't too hard. Finally Unholy
> > > Strength is a basic pumper. It was that or Shade's Form, but I didn't
> > > like the color-switch.
> > >
> > > Peter
> >
> > I might try finding room for Raise Dead in there myself - very basic
> > effect (just swap it for a creature in the graveyard) and it gives a
> > feel for black's abilities. Would Foul Imp or Fledgling Djinn's
> > triggered life loss make them too complex for the deck? I think there
> > has to be a better simple flyer option than Nightmare, but I'm drawing
> > a blank at the moment - iconic as it is, Sengir Vampire is too complex.
> > How about Skyshroud Vampire? That's a straightforward pump effect.
>
> Simple fliers like Bog Imp or Dusk Imp maybe?

I think something big and rare is needed - most of these other decks
have some equivalent big rare nasty (Shivan Dragon, Serra Angel,
Mahamoti Djinn, Ancient Silverback/Emperor Crocodile). Most of what
black has in that way is either land-based or has complex
effects/disadvantages, though. As for Bog Imp etc. as a small flyer
(for which I've suggested Fledgling Djinn or Foul Imp), this deck needs
to be able to compete with the other four basic decks, and right now
with such basic but inefficient cards as Scathe Zombies dominating and
with nothing at all in the 1CC bracket (I think - what's Severed
Legion?), this one's somewhat weaker than the red, green and white
decks (at least as I've formulated the red and green ones).

Philip Bowles
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

pbowles RemoveThis @aol.com wrote:

> with such basic but inefficient cards as Scathe Zombies dominating and
> with nothing at all in the 1CC bracket (I think - what's Severed
> Legion?)

Severed Legion is a 3cc 2/2 Zombie with Fear.

So, it's strictly better than Scathe. So, Scathe is stupid and is out.
I like the Foul Imp, except that the trade-off thing (2 life for a
better creature) is pretty complicated to understand. Still, having a
2/2 flier for 2 is a good deal, so maybe we'll go with that.

I like the idea of Vicious Hunger too, to sort of offset that. It's a
nice trade off, and underscores the potential for synergy.

Still, Terror is a strong card when there's no black/artifacts to deal
with, and I had imagined these as playing against another color...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!
Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

On the Raise Dead tip, what about throwing in a Fallen Angel? That's
some decent synergy in a small way.
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

Risser wrote:
> On the Raise Dead tip, what about throwing in a Fallen Angel? That's
> some decent synergy in a small way.

That could certainly fit the big flier role, but would its effect be
simple enough to understand? The sacrifice might be, but what about the
fact that the benefit's cumulative?

Philip Bowles
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

<pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1136067283.231441.11830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Risser wrote:
>> On the Raise Dead tip, what about throwing in a Fallen Angel? That's
>> some decent synergy in a small way.
>
> That could certainly fit the big flier role, but would its effect be
> simple enough to understand? The sacrifice might be, but what about the
> fact that the benefit's cumulative?

If that's your concern, might there be something that's only playable once a
turn? Alternatively, what about one of the big boys that needs 'feeding'
every turn (such as Lord of the Pit)?

Erich
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

Erich Leibrock wrote:
> <pbowles RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1136067283.231441.11830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Risser wrote:
> >> On the Raise Dead tip, what about throwing in a Fallen Angel? That's
> >> some decent synergy in a small way.
> >
> > That could certainly fit the big flier role, but would its effect be
> > simple enough to understand? The sacrifice might be, but what about the
> > fact that the benefit's cumulative?
>
> If that's your concern, might there be something that's only playable once a
> turn? Alternatively, what about one of the big boys that needs 'feeding'
> every turn (such as Lord of the Pit)?

If I remember the green deck discussion correctly, Risser wants to
avoid tramplers in these decks.

Philip Bowles
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

On 1 Jan 2006 15:21:02 -0800, pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com <pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Erich Leibrock wrote:
>> <pbowles.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1136067283.231441.11830@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Risser wrote:
>> >> On the Raise Dead tip, what about throwing in a Fallen Angel? That's
>> >> some decent synergy in a small way.
>> >
>> > That could certainly fit the big flier role, but would its effect be
>> > simple enough to understand? The sacrifice might be, but what about the
>> > fact that the benefit's cumulative?
>>
>> If that's your concern, might there be something that's only playable once a
>> turn? Alternatively, what about one of the big boys that needs 'feeding'
>> every turn (such as Lord of the Pit)?
>
> If I remember the green deck discussion correctly, Risser wants to
> avoid tramplers in these decks.
>
> Philip Bowles

Well, I'm coming into this discussion somewhat late and so don't really know
what's available, but for a 'simple' big black flier, might Visara the
Dreadful be an option? 5/5 for six mana, flies, taps to kill a creature...
and you can put off explaining the legend rule until it actually matters if
you only put in one anyway. (Alternatively, I thought of a couple of Demons
-- Havoc and Reiver Demon in particular --, but it seems to me that those
might be a tad expensive as well as powerful with their respective abilities
to potentially wipe out every creature on the table at once.)

And yes, if you already have four Severed Legions in the deck, Scathe Zombies
are kind of redundant. I'd consider including something cheaper with the
same power...not Nezumi Cutthroat, since eight creatures with fear in a deck
apparently likely to be played only against nonblack, nonartifact other decks
would be overkill, but maybe Skulking Ghost? Or, less powerful but nicely
showcasing black's discard abilities (I mean, you already seem to have two
Specters in there), Ravenous Rats?

Just some random ideas, mind.

==
Klaus Mittag (mittag@informatik.uni-frankfurt.de)
#include <disclaimer.h>
#include <fancysig.h>
spam > /dev/null
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black 

I like the idea of Ravenous Rats. Plus, they're pretty iconic. It's a
comes-into-play ability, which I don't have any of, but it should be
pretty easy to explain, I think.
Hmm.

I may have to look and see what demons I have...

Peter
 >> Stay informed about: Very Basic Decks: Black