 |
|
|
|
Related Topics:
| my PC name for GURPS - For any campaign or/and world of GURPS, can I role-play a character with Gurp as my name?
Gurps Character Creator - I saw this program in the store. How hard is it to create with the current rules using it?
Cybernetic gear in Gurps? - I haven't played gurps in years and have now found a use for that 3rd ed. book I bought a couple of years ago. My gaming group is putting together an RPG based on Warhammer 40k and I have noticed that there is very little info on What book do..
GURPS-ifying an idea... - In another topic, I solicited about possible settings. It kind of got the wheels turning regarding other concepts that I'd had, some of which might work as a campaign setting, a game world of it's own right. I've never really gone into that..
I'm looking for coppies of All of the Above Gurps Zine...?!? - Well the title says it all really looking for coppies of the Gurps APA zine "All of the I believe it ran for 42 issues?? (some of them may have been published anyone know for sure??) please drop me an email at..
|
|
|
Next: GURPS: GURPS Babylon 5
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Nov 23, 2007
Posts: 34
|
(Msg. 31) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps, others (more info?)
|
|
|
[cross-posted to .dnd because this reminds me of what Sea Wasp said
about super-powers in GURPS]
On Jan 16, 7:27 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:03:59 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
> >Addressed in the snipped part. I'm looking for a system that is more
> >skill-based than advantage-based,
>
> Yes, but why? Points is points. It doesn't make a difference whether
> you spend 8 points on a Flight power, or 8 points on Flight skill for
> a Psychokinetic power. You learn them at exactly the same rate.
This isn't the whole reason, but: point-balancing doesn't work unless
you have some auxiliary structure restricting how you can spend them.
(I.e. points are a good upper bound on power but a terrible lower
bound.) You claimed earlier in the thread that magic is "great for an
all-psi or magician campaign," but hard on anyone else, presumably
because "for large numbers of skills, magic is undervalued." I'm
dubious about that. Magic is great for breadth and versatility, but
for as shown elsewhere, for 9 points I can buy a killer attack power
that will do 600 points of damage with a one-second aim. Sure,
spending 400 points on Magery will let you spend 1 point to buy a
spell which is probably just as killer, but IMHO that doesn't make
magery underpriced. Start-up costs matter, and with magery you're
paying mostly for versatility and not for real power. Therefore you
ought to get versatility. I want psi to behave approximately the same.
> > and based more upon capabilities than effects.
>
> I don't understand the difference.
It's about verisimilitude. If you try to balanced based upon game-
effects, you'll measure everything in point costs. "You have modular
psi abilities that can simulate up to 50 points of any PK ability. You
can have 10 DR, or a 10d6 innate attack, or fly." I'd rather measure
it in terms of real capabilities, say, "You can apply up to 4000
Newtons of force," and see what you can do with it. (Obviously you'd
work out a lot of the conversions up-front. For instance, you'd
calculate telekinetic punch strength at character generation.) Sea
Wasp gave the example of modeling the X-Man Storm, who can control the
weather: if you're focused on game-effects, she'll have to buy
"lightning attack" and "flight - only outdoors" and "can make bad guys
slip - only when it's cold," etc., and if you think of a new
application for weather control, well, sorry, you have to buy it next
session.
-Max |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 32) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:59 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps (more info?)
|
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:44:39 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 9:27 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:03:59 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>>
>> <wilson.....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 16, 12:43 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:12:56 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>> >> >That's interesting (I thought that was only for Innate Attack) but
>> >> >doesn't address the root of the problem. [snip]
>>
>> >> What is the root of the problem?
>>
>> >Addressed in the snipped part. I'm looking for a system that is more
>> >skill-based than advantage-based,
>>
>> Yes, but why? Points is points.
>
>Many GMs don't like players improving advantages, especially
>supernatural ones.
That obviously doesn't apply to a setup where heavily limited
advantages represent individual magical spells. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 33) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:26:47 +0000 (UTC), bcd.DeleteThis@pvv.ntnu.no (Bent C
Dalager) wrote:
>In article <lqqso35fqcfh5jg8uformvj2hme9f80c57.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
>David Johnston <david.DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>>On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 12:12:56 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>><wilson.max.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Jan 16, 8:35 am, b....DeleteThis@pvv.ntnu.no (Bent C Dalager) wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> If you have multiple advantages from the same source, then you can get
>>>> away with paying 1/5th the cost for every advantage except the most
>>>> expensive one.
>>>
>>>That's interesting (I thought that was only for Innate Attack) (...)
>
>It can be done for Innate Attacks, Afflictions, Bindings and possibly
>Strikers.
Powers opened it up to anything that can reasonably be a different
application of the same power. >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 34) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:41:16 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 9:43 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:07:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>>
>>
>> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 16, 7:13 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:05:12 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>> >> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jan 16, 2:13 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:55:44 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>>
>> >> >> >much rather have a lot of up-front cost for the latent, monstrous
>> >> >> >power she starts out with, but doesn't know how to use, and then when
>> >> >> >she discovers it, new skills can be added fairly quickly.
>>
>> >> >> The problem of course is that as more skills are added, the psi power
>> >> >> cost itself became increasingly undervalued.
>>
>> >> >Which would make it balance with magic -- the more spells you learn,
>> >> >the more the cost for Magery becomes undervalued.
>>
>> >> That's great for the all-psi and magician campaign. Not so great for
>> >> anything else.
>>
>> >The problem is that in 3e, magic and psi were reasonably well-balanced
>> >against each other
>>
>> Magic was slower, more exhausting
>
>Depending on skill with the spell, many could be cast and maintained
>for free.
But the psi effects were much more powerful than those spells and were
free by default...even though unlike magery they didn't even have a
supposed external power source and there were no "low psi" areas which
inflicted a -5 to everything. And it's not as if there were any areas
that made magic easier for a mage.
>
>>, more limited in it's power levels
>
>To some extent, but not completely.
>
>> and had absolutely pathetic range.
>
>This was one of the few things broken with the magic system (being
>tied to a tactical map).
In order to talk about balance in the rules you need to actually use
them as written. Otherwise you aren't talking about the rules any
more.
>
>With magic, for the cost of a single point, you can add a new
>ability.You really can't do that with psi.
You could of course in 3rd edition and with much shorter prerequiste
chains.
>
>> >but superpowers weren't balanaced well with either.
>>
>> >4e basically left magic alone (easily the most used of the three
>> >supernatural systems above) but changed psi to balance with
>> >superpowers. So, you still have one unbalanced system and two balanced
>> >systems.
>>
>> Why are you ignoring the guys who don't have powers?
>
>I'm not. In virtually every game system I know of, they are at a
>disadvantage to those with powers. There is no point in comparing the
>two groups.
Given that you aren't concerned with balancing characters, what
difference does it make whether psi is balanced with magery? >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 35) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 17, 2:13 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:09:53 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 17, 1:24 am, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:41:16 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 16, 9:43 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:07:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Jan 16, 7:13 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:05:12 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> >> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On Jan 16, 2:13 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:55:44 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>
>
> >> And it's not as if there were any areas
> >> that made magic easier for a mage.
>
> >Err, High Mana. Very High Mana.
>
> Yes, neither of those make magic easier for a mage. High Mana just
> lets everyone use magic (actually eroding the value of being a mage a
> bit, the psi for example would be able to learn some spells to add to
> his repertoire of powers)
Huh. Thought there were benefits for a mage. Then again, I rarely use
anyhting other than normal mana (unless there is no magiv, then it's
no mana).
> >I would expect, on average, for there to be as many Low Mana areas as
> >High Mana and as many No Mana areas as Very High Mana areas.
>
> >> >>, more limited in it's power levels
>
> >> >To some extent, but not completely.
>
> >> >> and had absolutely pathetic range.
>
> >> >This was one of the few things broken with the magic system (being
> >> >tied to a tactical map).
>
> >> In order to talk about balance in the rules you need to actually use
> >> them as written. Otherwise you aren't talking about the rules any
> >> more.
>
> >I have no idea what you mean by this.
>
> I mean that the "balance" that you percieved, was created in part by
> ignoring one of the important limitations of magic.
Then that only means that balance was created by removing one rule.
And, honestly, if you aren't using miniatures, it's hard rule to
fairly enforce.
Note that telekinetic squeezes also had a -1/yard penalty and
telekinetic throwing used normal missile weapon rules. Telepathic ,
ESP and telportation range was bought with CPs. Healing required
touch. Pyro- and cryokinesis were exceptions, but were slower than
equivalent spells without high power.
> >> >With magic, for the cost of a single point, you can add a new
> >> >ability.You really can't do that with psi.
>
> >> You could of course in 3rd edition and with much shorter prerequiste
> >> chains.
>
> >But not in 4e. In 4e a mage can add new abilities cheaply, while a psi
> >can't.
>
> The answer is simple of course. Use the magery system for "psi". It's
> there. It's what you want. A new power per point you spend.
i know someone has suggested that before.
I'd rather use the 3e psi system.
Additionally, after using ritual magic from Spirits for a few years,
I've come to much prefer it to "spell" magic.
> >> >> Why are you ignoring the guys who don't have powers?
>
> >> >I'm not. In virtually every game system I know of, they are at a
> >> >disadvantage to those with powers. There is no point in comparing the
> >> >two groups.
>
> >> Given that you aren't concerned with balancing characters
>
> >That's not true. I am concerned that if character A spends 50 points
> >on ability X and character B spends 50 points on ability Y, then the
> >two abilities should both be about as useful when needed.
>
> Not when Character B is spending 50 points on an ability that is not a
> supernatural power, like, say, a characteristic. Then he's screwed.
> If supernatural powers are going to be that valuable.
No, he's not. Looking at a campaign overall, one 50 point ability
should be as useful as any other 50 point ability.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 36) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 17, 6:10 pm, David Johnston <da....TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:50:53 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> <cop....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >That's not true. I am concerned that if character A spends 50 points
> >> >on ability X and character B spends 50 points on ability Y, then the
> >> >two abilities should both be about as useful when needed.
>
> >> Not when Character B is spending 50 points on an ability that is not a
> >> supernatural power, like, say, a characteristic. Then he's screwed.
> >> If supernatural powers are going to be that valuable.
>
> >No, he's not. Looking at a campaign overall, one 50 point ability
> >should be as useful as any other 50 point ability.
>
> Which is of course why the change was made so that would be possible
> for those who desire it.
Then the made the exact wrong change.
They didn't quite get there of course, but
> they got much closer.
Farther. They got much farther.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 37) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps, others (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:53:05 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
<wilson.max RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>[cross-posted to .dnd because this reminds me of what Sea Wasp said
>about super-powers in GURPS]
>
>On Jan 16, 7:27 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:03:59 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>> >Addressed in the snipped part. I'm looking for a system that is more
>> >skill-based than advantage-based,
>>
>> Yes, but why? Points is points. It doesn't make a difference whether
>> you spend 8 points on a Flight power, or 8 points on Flight skill for
>> a Psychokinetic power. You learn them at exactly the same rate.
>
>This isn't the whole reason, but: point-balancing doesn't work unless
>you have some auxiliary structure restricting how you can spend them.
>(I.e. points are a good upper bound on power but a terrible lower
>bound.) You claimed earlier in the thread that magic is "great for an
>all-psi or magician campaign,"
No I didn't. I claimed that it would be important to balance psi and
magic but not anything else in the campaign where everyone is a psi or
a magician. >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 38) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>gurps (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:09:53 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 17, 1:24 am, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:41:16 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>>
>>
>> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 16, 9:43 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:07:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>> >> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Jan 16, 7:13 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:05:12 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>> >> >> <cop....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >On Jan 16, 2:13 pm, David Johnston <da....DeleteThis@block.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:55:44 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
>>
>> >> >> >> >much rather have a lot of up-front cost for the latent, monstrous
>> >> >> >> >power she starts out with, but doesn't know how to use, and then when
>> >> >> >> >she discovers it, new skills can be added fairly quickly.
>>
>> >> >> >> The problem of course is that as more skills are added, the psi power
>> >> >> >> cost itself became increasingly undervalued.
>>
>> >> >> >Which would make it balance with magic -- the more spells you learn,
>> >> >> >the more the cost for Magery becomes undervalued.
>>
>> >> >> That's great for the all-psi and magician campaign. Not so great for
>> >> >> anything else.
>>
>> >> >The problem is that in 3e, magic and psi were reasonably well-balanced
>> >> >against each other
>>
>> >> Magic was slower, more exhausting
>>
>> >Depending on skill with the spell, many could be cast and maintained
>> >for free.
>>
>> But the psi effects were much more powerful than those spells
>
>Depends on the psi level. At low levels (1-5) magic generally
>outclassed psi (looking at CP cost for effect). It generally took psi
>power to be 10+ for it to outpower magic, but by then you were were
>spedning a lot more points on psi power than Magery.
>
> and were
>> free by default...even though unlike magery they didn't even have a
>> supposed external power source and there were no "low psi" areas which
>> inflicted a -5 to everything.
>
>There was nothing in the rules to fix how common or rare Low Mana
>areas were.
Yup. I find under 4 e, that for certain point ranges, assuming the
entire world is Low Mana (with tiny exceptions) tends to establish
parity between magery and psi at certain point levels.
>
>> And it's not as if there were any areas
>> that made magic easier for a mage.
>
>Err, High Mana. Very High Mana.
Yes, neither of those make magic easier for a mage. High Mana just
lets everyone use magic (actually eroding the value of being a mage a
bit, the psi for example would be able to learn some spells to add to
his repertoire of powers) and Very High Mana just makes magic riskier
to use but less tiring.
>
>I would expect, on average, for there to be as many Low Mana areas as
>High Mana and as many No Mana areas as Very High Mana areas.
>
>> >>, more limited in it's power levels
>>
>> >To some extent, but not completely.
>>
>> >> and had absolutely pathetic range.
>>
>> >This was one of the few things broken with the magic system (being
>> >tied to a tactical map).
>>
>> In order to talk about balance in the rules you need to actually use
>> them as written. Otherwise you aren't talking about the rules any
>> more.
>
>I have no idea what you mean by this.
I mean that the "balance" that you percieved, was created in part by
ignoring one of the important limitations of magic.
>
>> >With magic, for the cost of a single point, you can add a new
>> >ability.You really can't do that with psi.
>>
>> You could of course in 3rd edition and with much shorter prerequiste
>> chains.
>
>But not in 4e. In 4e a mage can add new abilities cheaply, while a psi
>can't.
The answer is simple of course. Use the magery system for "psi". It's
there. It's what you want. A new power per point you spend.
>> >> Why are you ignoring the guys who don't have powers?
>>
>> >I'm not. In virtually every game system I know of, they are at a
>> >disadvantage to those with powers. There is no point in comparing the
>> >two groups.
>>
>> Given that you aren't concerned with balancing characters
>
>That's not true. I am concerned that if character A spends 50 points
>on ability X and character B spends 50 points on ability Y, then the
>two abilities should both be about as useful when needed.
Not when Character B is spending 50 points on an ability that is not a
supernatural power, like, say, a characteristic. Then he's screwed.
If supernatural powers are going to be that valuable...why NOT let
them cost significantly? >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 39) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 17, 9:22 pm, David Johnston <da... DeleteThis @block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> <cop... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> > They didn't quite get there of course, but
> >> they got much closer.
>
> >Farther. They got much farther.
>
> No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
> mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
> for those who care about such things.
If I wanted to modify advantages to serve as spells I would have
bought Hero 18 years ago..
brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 40) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 18, 12:02 am, David Johnston <da....RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:03:14 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <cop....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 17, 9:22 pm, David Johnston <da....RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> <cop....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > They didn't quite get there of course, but
> >> >> they got much closer.
>
> >> >Farther. They got much farther.
>
> >> No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
> >> mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
> >> for those who care about such things.
>
> >If I wanted to modify advantages to serve as spells I would have
> >bought Hero 18 years ago..
>
> So balance isn't all that important to you.
Yes, it is. Apparently just not in the way that's it's important to
you.
> That's why they kept
> magery for the people for whom balance isn't that important.
And you know this how?
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 41) Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 18, 1:08 am, David Johnston <da....RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:09:58 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <cop....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 18, 12:02 am, David Johnston <da....RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:03:14 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> <cop....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 17, 9:22 pm, David Johnston <da....RemoveThis@block.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> >> <cop....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> > They didn't quite get there of course, but
> >> >> >> they got much closer.
>
> >> >> >Farther. They got much farther.
>
> >> >> No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
> >> >> mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
> >> >> for those who care about such things.
>
> >> >If I wanted to modify advantages to serve as spells I would have
> >> >bought Hero 18 years ago..
>
> >> So balance isn't all that important to you.
>
> >Yes, it is. Apparently just not in the way that's it's important to
> >you.
>
> >> That's why they kept
> >> magery for the people for whom balance isn't that important.
>
> >And you know this how?
>
> Because Magery isn't all that balanced even internally.
I'm interested as to why you think this.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 42) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:10 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:50:53 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >That's not true. I am concerned that if character A spends 50 points
>> >on ability X and character B spends 50 points on ability Y, then the
>> >two abilities should both be about as useful when needed.
>>
>> Not when Character B is spending 50 points on an ability that is not a
>> supernatural power, like, say, a characteristic. Then he's screwed.
>> If supernatural powers are going to be that valuable.
>
>No, he's not. Looking at a campaign overall, one 50 point ability
>should be as useful as any other 50 point ability.
Which is of course why the change was made so that would be possible
for those who desire it. They didn't quite get there of course, but
they got much closer. >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Feb 26, 2005
Posts: 657
|
(Msg. 43) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:57 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Jan 18, 1:25 am, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:09:57 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
>
>
> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 18, 1:08 am, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:09:58 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 18, 12:02 am, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:03:14 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >On Jan 17, 9:22 pm, David Johnston <da... RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>
> >> >> >> <cop... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> > They didn't quite get there of course, but
> >> >> >> >> they got much closer.
>
> >> >> >> >Farther. They got much farther.
>
> >> >> >> No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
> >> >> >> mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
> >> >> >> for those who care about such things.
>
> >> >> >If I wanted to modify advantages to serve as spells I would have
> >> >> >bought Hero 18 years ago..
>
> >> >> So balance isn't all that important to you.
>
> >> >Yes, it is. Apparently just not in the way that's it's important to
> >> >you.
>
> >> >> That's why they kept
> >> >> magery for the people for whom balance isn't that important.
>
> >> >And you know this how?
>
> >> Because Magery isn't all that balanced even internally.
>
> >I'm interested as to why you think this.
>
> >Brandon
>
> The spells, their costs and their framework weren't designed in any
> systematic fashion. It's guesswork.
I'm familiar with some spell creation systems. They don't guarantee
balance.
> Certain spells like Reverse
> Missiles or Utter Dome are infinitely powerful
Can't speak for Utter Done (no PC mage has ever had it) but Reverse
Missiles isn't actually that hard to defeat -- attack the ground
around the mage, not the mage himself. Lobbing flasks of flaming oil
into adjectent hexes is unaffected by the spell. In a high-tech
setting, all sorts of grenades with exotic gases are available.
OTOH, Reverse Missiles may be the best offensive spell in a setting
with automatic slugthrowers.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 44) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:22 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> They didn't quite get there of course, but
>> they got much closer.
>
>Farther. They got much farther.
No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
for those who care about such things. >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 23, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 45) Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:11 am
Post subject: Re: Psi: Power Level in 3e, Talent in 4e? (was: Gurps Babylon 5) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:03:14 -0800 (PST), "copeab@yahoo.com"
<copeab.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 17, 9:22 pm, David Johnston <da....TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:05:09 -0800 (PST), "cop...@yahoo.com"
>>
>> <cop....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > They didn't quite get there of course, but
>> >> they got much closer.
>>
>> >Farther. They got much farther.
>>
>> No, they didn't. They now have a system under which psi, magic and
>> mundane and super advantanges can all be balanced against each other,
>> for those who care about such things.
>
>If I wanted to modify advantages to serve as spells I would have
>bought Hero 18 years ago..
So balance isn't all that important to you. That's why they kept
magery for the people for whom balance isn't that important. >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
|
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Profile
Private Messages
Log in/Register/Password
