Gurps Babylon 5

On Jan 11, 6:03 pm, Aaron Sherman <AaronJSher....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Psi is fairly straight-forward, especially if you're using 4e. You
> just have to pick the power levels that you want to associate with
> each P-rating.

Wait, I thought GURPS 4e did away with psi power levels. Did GURPS
Powers put them back in? If so, I will get it ASAP.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

I queried SJGames about the projected availability of GURPS Vorkosigan.
This is the reply:
"Progress has been continuing on GURPS Vorkosigan lately, and it's
actually much further along in the process now. However, we're a little
reluctant to announce the stages of progress until we hit "Printing", as
we know people have been waiting a very long time for this book. You may
rest assured that the book will be out before a theoretical Fifth
Edition. -- Fade Manley -Webmaster"

In preparation for a campaign in that setting I've looked at the
Galactic Tourist Bureau maps here:

http://pw1.netcom.com/~fresne/nexus.htm

and here with the book references

http://pw1.netcom.com/~fresne/justmap.htm

However, they don't specify the number of jumps/FTL travel time between
the locations, just that there is a jump route between the connected
systems. Having read the series, sometimes the info is provided, usually
it is not. And there are a number of literary devices that don't match
the descriptions between books. I was wondering if anyone had developed
a 3D model with that info, or modeled the systems based on Traveller rules?

And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal?
I.E. map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?

And finally, can anyone recommend a graphic tool that would allow me to
create such a 3D model where I could zoom from a "galactic overall" map
to a "system" map to a "planetary" map.
Thanks,
Roger

Roger Connor
night-hunter.DeleteThis@earthlink.net
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

Max Wilson <wilson.max.RemoveThis@gmail.com> writes:

> On Jan 11, 6:03 pm, Aaron Sherman <AaronJSher....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Psi is fairly straight-forward, especially if you're using 4e. You
> > just have to pick the power levels that you want to associate with
> > each P-rating.
>
> Wait, I thought GURPS 4e did away with psi power levels. Did GURPS
> Powers put them back in? If so, I will get it ASAP.

I think Aaron might have been saying "power level" as a descriptive
term, not a reference to a GURPS 4e term.

The 3e "Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the 4e "<foo> Talent"
for each power, e.g. Telepathy Talent is bought in levels; each level
adds +1 to use of all abilities in the Telepathy power.

--
\ "To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no |
`\ choreography, and the dancers hit each other." -- Jack Handey |
_o__) |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:

[cut]
> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?

I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx DeleteThis @acm.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
>
>[cut]
>> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
>> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
>> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
>
>I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
>Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.

I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

In article <jcmno310etogkfpdms09nsn6da2umb52lj RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
David Johnston <david RemoveThis @block.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:44:03 -0600, Zan Lynx <zlynx RemoveThis @acm.org> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:53:34 -0500, Night-hunter wrote:
> >
> >[cut]
> >> And, as the systems/worlds described don't really make reference to
> >> actual star charts, has anyone attempted to create such an animal? I.E.
> >> map Beta Colony to a theoretical planet orbiting say Alpha Centauri A?
> >
> >I think Beta Colony's star is described in the short story Dreamweaver's
> >Dilemma. I don't have my copy available to check though.
>
> I think Beta is around Alpha Centauri B actually. Hence the name.

I think Beta Colony is further out than that (my impression from
"Dreamweaver's Dilemma" was that it was 24 light years away from
Earth - "news that was 24 years old").

--
Robert Woodward <robertaw RemoveThis @drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 12, 1:29 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
wrote:
> I think Aaron might have been saying "power level" as a descriptive
> term, not a reference to a GURPS 4e term.
>
> The 3e "Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the 4e "<foo> Talent"
> for each power, e.g. Telepathy Talent is bought in levels; each level
> adds +1 to use of all abilities in the Telepathy power.

Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.
I'm thinking of Julian May's Saga of the Pliocene Exiles, for
instance. Some master-class PK adepts have jobs manipulating atoms at
the molecular level (heh, like John Ringo's Indowy). A power-house
like Felice can toss battleships around, but she doesn't have the
finesse for microscopic manipulation. Probably.

It's like throwing out ST and saying, "From now on, just buy up DX."

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:16:36 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
<wilson.max DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 12, 1:29 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
>wrote:
>> I think Aaron might have been saying "power level" as a descriptive
>> term, not a reference to a GURPS 4e term.
>>
>> The 3e "Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the 4e "<foo> Talent"
>> for each power, e.g. Telepathy Talent is bought in levels; each level
>> adds +1 to use of all abilities in the Telepathy power.
>
>Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
>levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.

They still have that distinction of course, but it isn't Talent. It's
buying range for your Advantage, and dice of innate attack.
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

Max Wilson <wilson.max.DeleteThis@gmail.com> writes:

> On Jan 12, 1:29 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
> wrote:
> > The 3e "Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the 4e "<foo>
> > Talent" for each power, e.g. Telepathy Talent is bought in levels;
> > each level adds +1 to use of all abilities in the Telepathy power.
>
> Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
> levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.

Looks like I'm wrong in the above.

The 3e "buy a specific Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the
unified 4e "buy the ability at the level you need to describe how
powerful you are". The "<foo> Talent" represents the skill in
controlling the ability.

> I'm thinking of Julian May's Saga of the Pliocene Exiles, for
> instance. Some master-class PK adepts have jobs manipulating atoms
> at the molecular level (heh, like John Ringo's Indowy).

Telekinesis at a low level, with very high Telekinesis Talent.

> A power-house like Felice can toss battleships around, but she
> doesn't have the finesse for microscopic manipulation. Probably.

Telekinesis at a very high level, with low Telekinesis Talent.

> It's like throwing out ST and saying, "From now on, just buy up DX."

Under the above correction, I don't believe your interpretation is
right.

--
\ "Our products just aren't engineered for security." -- Brian |
`\ Valentine, senior vice-president of Microsoft Windows |
_o__) development |
Ben Finney
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

David Johnston <david DeleteThis @block.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:16:36 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
> <wilson.max DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 12, 1:29 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
>>wrote:
>>> I think Aaron might have been saying "power level" as a descriptive
>>> term, not a reference to a GURPS 4e term.
>>>
>>> The 3e "Power Level" for each Psi power becomes the 4e "<foo> Talent"
>>> for each power, e.g. Telepathy Talent is bought in levels; each level
>>> adds +1 to use of all abilities in the Telepathy power.
>>
>>Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
>>levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.
>
> They still have that distinction of course, but it isn't Talent. It's
> buying range for your Advantage, and dice of innate attack.


--
"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society." -Mark Twain
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 15, 11:00 am, David Johnston <da....TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:16:36 -0800 (PST), Max Wilson
> >Yeah, that's the mechanic that didn't make any sense to me. Power
> >levels were specifically distinguishing between strength and skill.
>
> They still have that distinction of course, but it isn't Talent. It's
> buying range for your Advantage, and dice of innate attack.

That mechanic doesn't appeal to be because it doesn't have any
cohesion. I don't have one (or five or so) abilities that I can use to
do various things; I have a bucket of powers that I claim are all
powered by the same ability. It ends up being advantage-based instead
of skill-based. For instance, if Felice has this monstrous PK talent
and I want her to be able to fly with it as well as levitate ships and
knock people around, she has to spend 40-odd extra points to get a
basic "Move 5" Fly, and move to increase it. Then she needs to spend a
bundle more on the knocking-people-around part (Innate Attack). I'd
much rather have a lot of up-front cost for the latent, monstrous
power she starts out with, but doesn't know how to use, and then when
she discovers it, new skills can be added fairly quickly.

Imagine if there was no "Magic" system included in GURPS, and each
spell was an advantage purchased separately with the "magic; -10%" and
"costs fatigue" limitation. Blech. Not flexible at all, and completely
the wrong flavor for how I want to view wizards.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 15, 12:51 pm, Ben Finney <bignose+hates-s...@benfinney.id.au>
wrote:
> > A power-house like Felice can toss battleships around, but she
> > doesn't have the finesse for microscopic manipulation. Probably.
>
> Telekinesis at a very high level, with low Telekinesis Talent.
>
> > It's like throwing out ST and saying, "From now on, just buy up DX."
>
> Under the above correction, I don't believe your interpretation is
> right.

Well, I was specifically pointing out that Talent != 3E power level. I
agree that Felice (on any PK powerhouse) could be modelled in 4E, or
at least Felice as she exists at any particular moment. What I don't
think can be modelled is the character progression, because the 4E
system is advantage-based instead of skill-based. More in the other
message.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5 

On Jan 16, 8:35 am, b....RemoveThis@pvv.ntnu.no (Bent C Dalager) wrote:
> In article <a34da3ca-2e2a-4eeb-b12a-e4dea45c8....RemoveThis@d21g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> Max Wilson  <wilson.....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >(...) For instance, if Felice has this monstrous PK talent
> >and I want her to be able to fly with it as well as levitate ships and
> >knock people around, she has to spend 40-odd extra points to get a
> >basic "Move 5" Fly, and move to increase it. Then she needs to spend a
> >bundle more on the knocking-people-around part (Innate Attack).
>
> If you have multiple advantages from the same source, then you can get
> away with paying 1/5th the cost for every advantage except the most
> expensive one.

That's interesting (I thought that was only for Innate Attack) but
doesn't address the root of the problem. Another way to do the same
thing would be to have modular abilities that are restricted to e.g.
PK abilities.

Now, this isn't so much a problem with GURPS 4e itself as a
dissatisfaction with the lack of a particular kind of system. GURPS
being what it is, it's not too much trouble to make up and plug in a
psionics system resembling 3e. It would probably resemble the Basic
magic system, in the sense that you'd buy a base-level advantage (or
advantages) and then buy skills for using it. I just got excited
originally because it sort of looked like somebody ("GURPS Powers?" I
thought) had already done that work.

FWIW, I would also like a magic system that looks more like AD&D 2nd
edition--explicit spell levels, more overt battle magic, and spells
that improve as your wizard "levels up." I like GURPS because it has
far greater verisimilitude than D&D ever did, but I also want the
ability to mine D&D source material for monsters, spells, etc. I have
such a magic system designed on paper and awaiting implementation in
my open-source GURPS CRPG project.

-Max
 >> Stay informed about: Gurps Babylon 5