Changes to Attacks

I seem to remember that Payday used to just double the level that the
poke who used it was at, so you got 80 monetary units for a level 40
poke. Then the Amulet Coin doubled this so you got 160 for a level 40
poke. And you learned it much earlier (in the teens, now it's at 30
as Meowth) so it didn't seem to give as much (level 14 you were
getting 28 monetary units 'cause the Amulet Coin was later).

But I was playing along and noticed that with the Amulet Coin I was
getting 10x the level (easy to see) of the poke I was using. So I
just did a tiny trial and found that Payday now gives out 5x the level
normally, and doubles that to 10x when the poke is holding the Amulet
Coin. This does add up nicely if you go against things that are
resistant to Normal attacks, (like Rock, Steel) and you just keep
hitting it with Payday, you can pick up thousands of monetary units
after 1 battle.

It's also the reason that I don't think Pickup is the best ability for
a Meowth, unless you like Limber on a Persian (never gets Paralyzed
(sp?)). Technician apparently powers up attacks that are under 70
(which seems to me to be a bit high to call a "low level" attack's
strength) in strength (Pay Day is 40 like Fake Out). But I don't
think anyone knows how much it 'powers up' (which is so vague) the
move. It can't be like Howl, 'cause that ups the poke's Attack stat
and that would affect all attacks, so how do they do it?
But Pickup would be wasted if you have the poke holding the Amulet
Coin.

Steffan was telling us about the changes to Weather attacks (he says
'cause there isn't anyplace else to stick it and let's face it, we are
interested), but I don't think I have read a FAQ on the changes to the
attacks like this. People focus on the new attacks (some of which are
just sort of continuations of what was going on before (Aqua Jet and
Ice Shard going first just like Quick attack for instance (but both
hit Ghosts and almost every other poke except for those with the
Abosrb abilities). The Attack FAQ that I do have doesn't have the
changes to Blizzard (that it's accuracy changes to 100% in Hail, but
this is again a continuation from games before, where Thunder becomes
100% accutate in Rain, so it does make sense) (just checked it the
Weather section and it is there, but unconfirmed and the other Hail
and Sandstorm effects are not there) for instance.

And then there are the changes to attack strength and accuracy, such
as Fly.

But my head hurts with all the work I think this could be (finding all
the actual changes in the new generation, not just the new attacks and
pokes). I could just be over complicating things though. It's been
known to happen.

daramark

On Sep 14, 2:17 pm, daramark <daram... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> I seem to remember that Payday used to just double the level that the
> poke who used it was at, so you got 80 monetary units for a level 40
> poke. Then the Amulet Coin doubled this so you got 160 for a level 40
> poke. And you learned it much earlier (in the teens, now it's at 30
> as Meowth) so it didn't seem to give as much (level 14 you were
> getting 28 monetary units 'cause the Amulet Coin was later).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right, though I never bothered with
Payday after GSC - and I merely traded my high-level Paydayer from
Blue for that generation too. But 400 at most really wasn't
worthwhile compared to the thousands that could be earned easily in
the Elite Four by ANY Pokémon that's at :L100, singlehandedly.

> But I was playing along and noticed that with the Amulet Coin I was
> getting 10x the level (easy to see) of the poke I was using. So I
> just did a tiny trial and found that Payday now gives out 5x the level
> normally, and doubles that to 10x when the poke is holding the Amulet
> Coin. This does add up nicely if you go against things that are
> resistant to Normal attacks, (like Rock, Steel) and you just keep
> hitting it with Payday, you can pick up thousands of monetary units
> after 1 battle.

But this is incredible news, and I may just train up a Paydayer
again. The VS Seeker already makes money less of a problem in DP than
it has been in past generations, but I really like that Payday's more
useful now.

> It's also the reason that I don't think Pickup is the best ability for
> a Meowth, unless you like Limber on a Persian (never gets Paralyzed
> (sp?)).

Yeah. I like Pickup, but since Meowth loses it when it evolves, it's
not really worth it.

> Technician apparently powers up attacks that are under 70
> (which seems to me to be a bit high to call a "low level" attack's
> strength) in strength

Well, in competitive battling, only rarely would an attack be used if
it was under :L70, since there are almost always better alternatives.
How many people keep Swift? The only exceptions I can think of would
be Bite and Dig, because they're really useful types, and could be
learnt by Pokémon that couldn't necessarily get the superior Crunch
and Earthquake. Although Dig does 80 damage now.

> (Pay Day is 40 like Fake Out). But I don't
> think anyone knows how much it 'powers up' (which is so vague) the
> move. It can't be like Howl, 'cause that ups the poke's Attack stat
> and that would affect all attacks, so how do they do it?

Good question. My assumption is that it just jiggles the move, a bit
like STAB. Crunch on a Houndoom will still claim to be 80 base
damage, even though it's technically 120, so Technician must apply a
similar logic. It'd be very interesting to research the difference
Technician makes, though.

I wonder how good Ambipom actually is. With Technician, it might
actually make Swift a viable attack, particularly for double battles
and as a Double Team counter.

> But Pickup would be wasted if you have the poke holding the Amulet
> Coin.

Ahh, yes, I hadn't thought of that. But Technician/Payday sounds good
anyway.

> Steffan was telling us about the changes to Weather attacks (he says
> 'cause there isn't anyplace else to stick it and let's face it, we are
> interested),

I may well make a page for PKMN.NET about it, though I thought I'd see
if anyone else had noticed/read about/heard about any other
differences first ... and because I love reading those kinds of posts
myself.

> but I don't think I have read a FAQ on the changes to the
> attacks like this. People focus on the new attacks (some of which are
> just sort of continuations of what was going on before (Aqua Jet and
> Ice Shard going first just like Quick attack for instance (but both
> hit Ghosts and almost every other poke except for those with the
> Abosrb abilities). The Attack FAQ that I do have doesn't have the
> changes to Blizzard (that it's accuracy changes to 100% in Hail, but
> this is again a continuation from games before, where Thunder becomes
> 100% accutate in Rain, so it does make sense) (just checked it the
> Weather section and it is there, but unconfirmed and the other Hail
> and Sandstorm effects are not there) for instance.

Yeah, I've noticed plenty of changes to old attacks myself, and that's
from normal playing. It'd be interesting to collect all these changes
- seems far more dramatic than past games, which would occasionally
fiddle with base damage or type.

> And then there are the changes to attack strength and accuracy, such
> as Fly.

I'll list the ones I can remember from the top of my head, and see if
we can get a list going. I won't bother listing moves that have
changed between special and physical.

Rock Smash - up from 20 base damage to 40.
Fly - up from 70 to 90.
Surf - now hits your partner in double battles, like Earthquake.
Dig - up from 60 to 80.
Blizzard - now 100% accurate in Hail.
Thunder - now 50% accurate in a Sandstorm.
Recover - down to 10PP (did this happen before this generation? I'm
sure it had 20PP in RBY).
Crunch - now lowers Defense instead of Special Defense.

> But my head hurts with all the work I think this could be (finding all
> the actual changes in the new generation, not just the new attacks and
> pokes). I could just be over complicating things though. It's been
> known to happen.

I do want to look into this, so I'll let you know.

Steffan