Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s..

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On Sat, 03 May 2008 12:59:31 -0400, CoinSpin
<coin^spam^spin@comcast.net> wrote:

>Ross Ridge wrote:
>> Ross Ridge wrote:
>>
>>> No, TheSmokingGnu is correct. The Valve System Survey is in fact
>>> the best publically available source of information about the sort of
>>> computers gamers actually have. Compared the sort of speculation you and
>>> Nostromo are engaging in, deviod of any sort of objective observations,
>>> TheSmokingGnu's argument is both well-reasoned and excellent.
>>>
>>
>> Zaghadka <president.RemoveThis@whitehouse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>> I will disagree with you there. Following market data over the past 3 years or
>>> so, I'd propose that Valve's data is a "biased sample."
>>>
>>
>> It's not perfect, but Valve's survey by far the best available data on
>> the subject. A biased sample is far better than biased speculation.
>>
>
>Oh, you're right... So let's incorporate this philosophy into another
>industry... I know! Let's have all of the auto makers just look at the
>customers that are construction workers and contractors who use their
>vehicles for work. So, based on this biased (but fully valid in your
>opinion) survey the auto makers have determined that they should really
>concentrate on making light and heavy duty pickup trucks from now on.
>Seriously, what could go wrong? The survey data never lies.
>
I've visited the US - auto manufacturers ARE churning out pickup
trucks.
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Zaghadka wrote:
> Never wrestle with a pig. You both get covered in sh!t, but the pig likes it.

I'm so sorry, twas a spelling mistake, m'lord! It will never happen again...

*gratuitous prostration*



TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

CoinSpin wrote:
> TheSmokingGnu wrote:
>
> <lots of back and forth snipped>
>> Your argument, as I understand it:
>>
>> WoW is very popular (granted).
>> WoW has low system requirements (also, granted).
>> ---
>> Therefore, low system requirements make WoW popular.
>>
>
> I think you're making your own jump in logic there, and missing the
> point. Even I got the point, and I'm not the brightest crayon in the
> box at times.

<snip>

> Getting the point now?

I understand the intricacies of accessibility, yes, and I think that's
the logical leap Nos has been making. WoW is certainly accessible
because of it's low system req's, but accessibility doesn't necessarily
breed popularity (sure doesn't hurt, though). OSX is eminently
accessible, but holds very little market share over Windows (perhaps
because it is beaten by an even greater accessibility, the capability
for ubiquity).

TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

CoinSpin wrote:
> Oh, you're right... So let's incorporate this philosophy into another
> industry... I know!

By the same token, it also /doesn't/ mean that you should completely
stop making light trucks because the majority of the market is in
subcompacts. As long as there exists a market with sales that justify
the development and production, you should service it, in whatever
volume necessary.

Serving no customers is worse than serving the wrong kind of customer.

TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

"Justisaur" <justisaur.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6f023313-4be7-4cf8-8027-de0389b3ac54@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 2, 8:29 am, sw <s....TakeThisOut@eyrie.org> wrote:
>> On 2008-05-02, Xocyll <Xoc....TakeThisOut@kingston.net> wrote:
>>
>> > The not fun bit was that my ss/elec brute was kicking ass up to level
>> > 40
>> > at max difficulty and then went from being super to being gimped.
>> > Even on minimum difficulty the aracnoids were shredding me.
>>
>> > Nothing stops the fun like super overpowered enemies that swarm you.
>>
>> That's kind of true in City of Heroes too (Malta, Carnival of Shadows,
>> Rularuu), to an extent. But 40+ City of Villains made me appreciate that
>> my highest level character had a self-rez.
>
> Yeah, I stopped playing my ill/rad controller ages ago, both when they
> nerfed the hell out of her powers, and things got ridiculously tough
> so she's pretty much parked at 41. I logged her on recently and tried
> playing, I ran a carny mission and died 3 times trying to take on an
> illusionist boss - which took I think an hour before I could take her
> out finally. Not fun. Also had difficulty finding any groups at that
> level doing anything interesting (I like TFs and other really
> difficult stuff) She's on Virtue, although none of my other characters
> are, so if you ever need a 41 ill/rad try looking me up (o.k. not sure
> what info you'd need, her name is Clockwork Queen, but I never play
> her). She's my only character 40+
>
> My other high mid levels that are parked are a fire/devices blaster,
> Samantha Ash, I believe some nerf or other hit her around 30, and
> while she leveled incredibly fast, she just wasn't fun, pretty much
> pure solo.
>
> A 29 stone/fire tanker volcano girl (now something completely
> different due to time not logged into her) - actually great fun, but I
> got a bit irritated as I was suprised to find she did much better solo
> than in groups (actually fairly true of my ill/rad controller too),
> might have just been the groups or that I'm that good .
>
> A 32 robot/dark MM, iWar Black - Just got boring I guess, and my comp
> couldn't handle MMs in groups, he also needs a respec. I think both of
> those are on Justice
>
> My new one is Mauldin on Freedom a 29 Stone/Willpower Brute, love him,
> but I'd like to respec to tighten his build up a bit. I'm thinking of
> paying the fee to move him to Virtue as I didn't realize freedom was
> east coast, and I'm west, and I think I like the community on Virtue
> or Justice better.
>
> At least there is a way to move characters, even if you have to pay
> through the nose to do it.
>
> I keep wanting to try Superstrength/Willpower but I can't get a
> concept I can stand. I created 3 in a row on virtue, Only got one out
> of the zig, and I don't really like him either. I had a "Shoveler"
> clone, but it doesn't really work without a shovel, a "Strong Man" -
> but I couldn't stand looking a the bare chest, and they didn't have an
> over one shoulder top I could find, and lastly I made The Dwead Piwate
> Peanut as an ode to Fezzik, but that just doesn't seem very superish.
>
> I've also got a dark/rad corruptor on Justice at 17, which I really
> like, but she's no where near the fun of my brute, and a zombie/poison
> mm at 12 on Virtue which I really like the concept on, but can't seem
> to stand playing MMs anymore.
>
> - Justisaur

ITs funny, the fun factor, for me, with MM stops around level 32 ( 3
summons, 12 buffs every mission) the set up time is just 'meh'. Now, with a
brute the fun factor tends to pick up at 32, and then again at 38 (with
their tier 9 defensive power.

FEEEM! Indeed.
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Thus spake Xocyll <Xocyll DeleteThis @kingston.net>, Sat, 03 May 2008 12:02:51 -0400,
Anno Domini:

>>Still in that nice sleepy hollow seaside town? (well it's no secret given
>>your domain I guess .
>
>Seaside? A few hundred miles from any sea (or do the Great Lakes count
>as Seas to an Aussie?)

LOL - Kingston looked like it was hangin off the coast last I looked at a
map of Canada. DOH! Ok, waterside town - big body of water, just a different
salinity index. I must have been looking at a zoomed in map which made the
edge of the lakes looks like the Atlantic he he. Scary - you're only a
stone's throw from Yankee-land ;-p Doesn't that waterway spill out into the
Gulf of St Lawrence?

>>I tried plant/thorns briefly, but the same thing that bugged me about
>>>spines bugs me about /thorns, the spins sticking out everywhere and
>>>moreover the fact that you had to spike up the thorns before the ranged
>>>attacks could be used. Even if there is no actual redraw lag it was
>>>annoying, not to mention would look horrible with wings.
>>
>>Heh, at 6th I haven't really used too many secondary powers, but I don't
>>have any issues with the animations. Horses for courses
>>You sure there aren't some cool insecty wings available that would suit a
>>P/T dom?
>
>There are insect style wings (you can see all of them at
>http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Invention_Made_Costumes), but the
>spikes stick out all over and stick through wings/capes badly and look
>horrible.
>I'm a bit of a perfectionist and won't even use hairstyles that clip
>capes/wings, so having powers that stick a dozen spikes through are just
>right out.

You sure 'perfectionist' is the right word X? ;-p

>>>>> Also logged on my mind/kin controller Synapticide (Liberty) for a bit
>>>>> and finally leveled it to 20.
>>>>
>>>>Cool. I've got a 6th mind/empathy controller "MYOB" parked as well who
>>>>was a bit of fun way back when (who's bloody name has been pinched by
>>>>some other asshat - that's the 2nd char now grrrrr!!!).
>>>
>>>Some "other" asshat? Watch what you're calling yourself.
>>
>>He, he - the *first* asshat pinched my fire/dev blaster's name on another
>>server "Umbral Fury", which I was rather proud of. Was going to rename to
>>"Umbral Fury the real one", but I settled on just "UmbralFury"
>
>Ahh.
>The only time I ran into that was when I went to use Bonnie Bedlam on
>the test server and someone had snagged it.
>A minute or so of thought and using the "stargazer" mask, and "Sylvie
>Stargazer" was used instead.

What's in a name?

I have a template create for a Ene/Ene stalker chickee-babe aptly names
Jamie Joule Will have to scrap the Playboy outfit at some stage & give
her a proper one.

>>Oh, didn't think of that, though I suspect we'll get free server moves &
>>char renames before they dispense with the physical server topology (like
>>EVE kinda does). I doubt one 'server' could handle 150K players as it stands
>>anyway.
>
>The above mentioned name "Bonnie Bedlam", I have I think about 6
>different characters using that name - one a ma/reg from the first month
>of the game that hasn't been touched since.
>
>Ditto my plant/psi dominator and rad/rad defender are both "Fiona
>Ferrishyn" with the same look and similar backstories.
>
>I tend to do a lot of "variations on a theme" when I have a look or
>theme I like but find myself not liking the build as much.

I tend to be different & make wildly varying themes so I have an excuse to
try different ATs & powersets, sometimes ones that may not appeal on face
value, but become quite a bit of fun with the right name/costume.

>>>>> For a brief while I tried playing my highest villain up to get it to 50
>>>>> before the new villain ATs go in, but found I really wasn't having any
>>>>> fun doing it so that stopped rather quickly.
>>>>
>>>>Try a stalker...really.
>>>
>>>Did briefly, but didn't care for it much.
>>
>>Surprising. It's almost perfect for soloing, albeit slower than some other
>>ATs. What exactly didn't you like? What primary/secondary did you try btw?
>
>A ma/reg and a cople others. The loss of regen's quick recovery made
>it feel wrong.

A lot of ppl say regen is almost unsuited to a stalker build. Dark is very
good for dmg resists, which I find better than a good defense even. When
something gets through your defense (& it invariably will, no matter how
good it is) you're naked. Whereas dmg resists just keep on keeping on, no
matter what.

>>>The not fun bit was that my ss/elec brute was kicking ass up to level 40
>>>at max difficulty and then went from being super to being gimped.
>>>Even on minimum difficulty the aracnoids were shredding me.
>>
>>Dang. What Issue fubared things up?
>
>Wasn't an issue, it's the critters. Under 40 you're in St Martial,
>after 40 you're in the last zone and you are suddenly faced with enemies
>that are hideously overpowered; the arachnoids I mentioned before, that
>hit very fast, very hard and also seem to call out so every other one
>within 200 meters comes running to help and you get swarmed.

Yikes? Lucky my highest ever is Kelvin (hero) at 33rd

>>>Nothing stops the fun like super overpowered enemies that swarm you.
>>
>>Heh, too true. Though death is only a couple levels of revenge away!
>
>Not with those things, they hit like they're 6 levels higher than you,
>when they're a level lower than you.
>
>Like a Rikti Chief Soldier that's suddenly attacking 5-6 times as fast
>as normal.

Hasn't this been reported to the devs? How long's it been going on? If it's
clearly busted, it should be fixed. Or are they trying to force teaming on
the end game again *sigh*

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Thus spake TheSmokingGnu <anonymityisavirtue RemoveThis @1111011010011.com>, Sat, 03 May
2008 06:27:43 GMT, Anno Domini:

>Nostromo wrote:
>> Just take a look
>> at the mmogchart links I posted & tell me again that's not objective
>> evidence/reasoning. In the real world, money talks, bullshit walks.
>> Have a nice day ;-p.
>>
>
>What do the charts prove, beyond that fact that WoW is popular? They say
>nothing, prove nothing about system specs, therefore your arguments are
>invalid and unsound.

Are you & Rossco really this obtuse?

<shakes head & walks away>

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Thus spake CoinSpin <coin^spam^spin@comcast.net>, Sat, 03 May 2008 12:59:31
-0400, Anno Domini:

>> It's not perfect, but Valve's survey by far the best available data on
>> the subject. A biased sample is far better than biased speculation.
>>
>
>Oh, you're right... So let's incorporate this philosophy into another
>industry... I know! Let's have all of the auto makers just look at the
>customers that are construction workers and contractors who use their
>vehicles for work. So, based on this biased (but fully valid in your
>opinion) survey the auto makers have determined that they should really
>concentrate on making light and heavy duty pickup trucks from now on.
>Seriously, what could go wrong? The survey data never lies.
>
>ANY argument that can use the word "biased" in it and still argue that
>it is any sort of valid representation of a general population..... Ah,
>you know what? It's pointless, you obviously have your mind made up,
>and no amount of common sense or logic will ever convince you otherwise...

Bingo! I was quite happy to have a speculative debate based on observable
facts & sound reasoning to draw some conclusions on, WoW being the yardstick
by which to measure mmo commercial success by, clearly, whether we like it
or not. Instead we get argumentative BS tantamount to trolling, which I of
all ppl should be able to recognise

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Nostromo wrote:
> Bingo! I was quite happy to have a speculative debate

Then try using point and counter-point....

> based on observable
> facts

Then provide some. "High spec" is as abstruse as they come.

> sound reasoning

Should have provided some...

> to draw some conclusions on

Now these, these you have in spades.

> Instead we get argumentative BS tantamount to trolling

Can't have an argument without being argumentative. Nevertheless, I
recognize the ungraceful dismount when I see it.

*Rocky's manager tone* You coulda been great, kid, but ya pissed it all
away.

TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Thus spake Zaghadka <zaghadka.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>, Sat, 03 May 2008 08:28:40 GMT,
Anno Domini:

>The jury is out on whether Nostromo has "good judgment." ;^)

I love being the meat in the sandwich guys. Just make sure it's not a salad
sandwich - can't stand that .

>I wish I could just round up all the articles I've read over the past 3 years,
>but I can't. You have to look at lots of surveys and trends over a long period
>of time to get a real sense of where the PC market, DX10 and Vista, and by
>extension the gaming sub-market, is headed.
>
>It don't look too rosy. It certainly looks like "casual gaming" on laptops is a
>growth industry.
>
>I'm sure the folks that did AoC presented some sort of business plan, but I
>can't say that playing to the high-end consumer is smart.

And all I said was "mmo devs need to aim at a much lower spec PC". And they
say sticks & stones, but we all know words can start wars .

--
Nostromo
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s.. 

Nostromo wrote:
> I love being the meat in the sandwich guys. Just make sure it's not a salad
> sandwich - can't stand that .

Oooo, kinky.

> And all I said was "mmo devs need to aim at a much lower spec PC". And they
> say sticks & stones, but we all know words can start wars .

And all I asked was "why?".

TheSmokingGnu
 >> Stay informed about: Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures breaks all the current s..