Account on sale.

ominobufo wrote:
> Christian Stauffer ha scritto:
>> Unless you keep on paying the account after you sold it there will at
>> least be a change in the billing info.
> K, beside i changed several times billing information (just because i
> don't own initially a mine credit card) nothing ever happens. But this
> can be true. If one would not take the risk, he can just buy game card
> like i do in the beginning....
>>
>>> you have to ask yourself if they'll bother to block it without anyone
>>> whining about. You know an active paying account is better than one
>>> less.
>>
>> Well, people sure do whine about that
>> No, to be honest I don't think a big percentage of all sold accounts
>> is actually banned. But it does happen, it can happen, there's not
>> much you can do when it happens, and taking over an account from
>> someone you don't know is pretty risky. Blizzard states the account
>> is not tradeable, so when I as the original owner of the account
>> contact blizzard when I can't access my account anymore (because I've
>> sold it and the new owner changed passwords, or because my account
>> has been hacked - both is technically exactly the same), I will get
>> it back. And the one who bought it off me stands there with.. nothing.
>>
>> Chris
> Oh well, this happens for everything, also on ebay or in direct exchange
> of goods you can get swindled (hope this is the right term...).
> Generally i give all my trust on my nose ^^'. Something can just be feeled.

Blizzard does not actively hunt for and bann bought accounts. However,
should there ever arise any dispute or problem of any kind, be that
account data lost, password lost, trojan, password guessing attack,
in-game dispute, etc. and someone of their reps. look into the account
and notices that the account is not on the original buyer, they will
either stop helping at once or ban it at this point.

They don't have their no-sell policy because they are greedy bastards,
but it serves primarily to prevent all forms of liabilities and legal
problems arising with sold, resold, lent, stolen accounts, not to
mention divorces, revenge actions of one's brother, whatever. This would
simply cost too much manpower and time to settle, so they have this rule
and can at anytime simply block it off, telling you that you violated
rule number one anyway. And this is what they do.

So you "can" sell your account and you "can" buy an account without fear
of any real-world legal consequence. However, if you do so, you have to
expect at any time to lose the account, permanently with no way of recourse.

CU

René
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

ak wrote:
> "ominobufo" <sorry.DeleteThis@noreply.it> wrote in message
> news:459d502c$0$4242$4fafbaef@reader1.news.tin.it...
> >I sell an account on a pvp server with a
> > *full epic warlock female (pinky haired!!!) gnome (full T1 3 pieces tier2
> > and 2 other very good pieces form bwl Cabalist Shoulder and Ebony
>
> Gnome warlock, hell no! Who wants to buy that kind of account. I think
> people who plays gnomes are somekind of twisted.

Hey! Stop that kind of talk or I'll have my Gnome come over and punch
you in the kneecaps!
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

"ominobufo" <sorry RemoveThis @noreply.it> wrote:

>> That is very much against the T&Cs.
>>
>>
> Sorry the information, but this perfectly legal in my country. And
> whatsever blizzy says they can't denies a what is a national right. Even
> more is the product is officially sold and localized in my country. Bye.

It's not like it is your problem once you've got the money, but blizzard
can close the account anytime in your country if they feel it is used in
a way they don't want. And even if that wasn't legal, good look trying
to get it back.

Erm, bye.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (25) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

Get the alt.games.warcraft FAQ at http://www.wildcard7.com/agw_faq.txt
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

"ominobufo" <sorry.RemoveThis@noreply.it> wrote:

> And here you are wrong, nothing other than a signed piece of paper is
> considered a valid contract in my country.

In case you're italian this sentence is completely wrong.

> So no eula nor
> web-click-i-accept are considered valid contract between me and
> blizzard.

Yes, they are.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (25) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

Get the alt.games.warcraft FAQ at http://www.wildcard7.com/agw_faq.txt
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

"Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666.RemoveThis@bluewin.ch> wrote:

> "ominobufo" <sorry.RemoveThis@noreply.it> wrote:
>
>> And here you are wrong, nothing other than a signed piece of paper is
>> considered a valid contract in my country.
>
> In case you're italian this sentence is completely wrong.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c123.htm

CONTRACT - An agreement between two or more competent parties in
which an offer is made and accepted, and each party benefits. The
agreement can be formal, informal, written, oral or just plain
understood. Some contracts are required to be in writing in order
to be enforced. (2) An agreement between two or more parties which
creates obligations to do or not do the specific things that are
the subject of that agreement. Examples of a contract are a lease,
a promissory note, or a rental agreement.

In italy almost all sorts of contracts are "formless", that is they
don't require a certain form (like being written). So, just to say
it once more: "Only a signed piece of paper is a valid contract"
isn't even remotely true for any country I know, and certainly not
for one of the EU countries.

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (25) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

Get the alt.games.warcraft FAQ at http://www.wildcard7.com/agw_faq.txt
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

Christian Stauffer ha scritto:
> "Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666.DeleteThis@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>
> http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c123.htm
>
> CONTRACT - An agreement between two or more competent parties in
> which an offer is made and accepted, and each party benefits. The
> agreement can be formal, informal, written, oral or just plain
> understood. Some contracts are required to be in writing in order
> to be enforced. (2) An agreement between two or more parties which
> creates obligations to do or not do the specific things that are
> the subject of that agreement. Examples of a contract are a lease,
> a promissory note, or a rental agreement.
>
> In italy almost all sorts of contracts are "formless", that is they
> don't require a certain form (like being written). So, just to say
> it once more: "Only a signed piece of paper is a valid contract"
> isn't even remotely true for any country I know, and certainly not
> for one of the EU countries.
>
> Chris
>
Even if to read the contract you have actualy to buy the game and
install it? because in my localized copy there arent any trace of user
contract in my language and even in english language (just a case?).
And then u think that a video displaying a contract not in my language
(that maybe I cannot understand) can have some legal validity? I don't
think so sorry.
Bye
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

"ominobufo" <sorry RemoveThis @noreply.it> wrote:

> Even if to read the contract you have actualy to buy the game and
> install it? because in my localized copy there arent any trace of user
> contract in my language and even in english language (just a case?).
> And then u think that a video displaying a contract not in my language
> (that maybe I cannot understand) can have some legal validity? I don't
> think so sorry.

Whether you think so or not doesn't matter
And, as someone else pointed out, if you wouldn't have a contract, what
would your right to keep those characters be based of, except on
goodwill?

Chris

--
[WoW] Wildcard - Treehugging Tauren (60) on EN Sunstrider [PvP]
Gwaith - Short beastmaster (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Sian - Best friend (60) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]
Yagon - Pointy eared beast (25) on EN Scarshield L. [RPPvP]

Get the alt.games.warcraft FAQ at http://www.wildcard7.com/agw_faq.txt
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

ominobufo <sorry DeleteThis @noreply.it> writes:
>Even if to read the contract you have actualy to buy the game and
>install it? because in my localized copy there arent any trace of user
>contract in my language and even in english language (just a case?).
>And then u think that a video displaying a contract not in my language
>(that maybe I cannot understand) can have some legal validity? I don't
>think so sorry.

Listen wingnut, nobody cares what you think. Account selling will get the
account banned. How about you give us the character name and server if
you're so unafraid of that happening? *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

"Christian Stauffer" <wildcard666.RemoveThis@bluewin.ch> writes:
>No, to be honest I don't think a big percentage of all sold accounts
>is actually banned. But it does happen, it can happen, there's not

I can tell you this - we had three people join our guild after trading
accounts of the same class and level with someone on another server
(opposite faction). The tally? 1 account snatched back by the seller,
1 account banned, and 1 sale that fell through immediately after an
account transfer, which stranded the seller on a server they didn't ever
intend to play on. Two of these transactions were brokered by the most
'respectable' service handling this stuff. You all know the name. Did
anyone get their money back? Nope.

It might go totally smooth for someone else, but since there's no recourse
to anyone if it doesn't, it remains a pretty stupid thing to try unless
the other party is well known. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

Rene <invalid.TakeThisOut@email.addr> writes:
>Blizzard does not actively hunt for and bann bought accounts. However,
>should there ever arise any dispute or problem of any kind, be that
>account data lost, password lost, trojan, password guessing attack,
>in-game dispute, etc. and someone of their reps. look into the account
>and notices that the account is not on the original buyer, they will
>either stop helping at once or ban it at this point.

Yup. All it takes is one report to get them to look into it. We had a
rather famous case on our server where a guild leader put up the bank on
ebay. The account was deleted before the sale even took place - just
someone posting a link to the auction on the forum was all it took. *
--
* PV something like badgers--something like lizards--and something
like corkscrews.
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

PV ha scritto:
> ominobufo <sorry.DeleteThis@noreply.it> writes
>
> Listen wingnut, nobody cares what you think. Account selling will get the
> account banned. How about you give us the character name and server if
> you're so unafraid of that happening? *
>
Eheheh, first of all, one thing is being unafraid another being stupid,
will never post pubbicly name character name and account data without
have been already paid.
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

Rene ha scritto:
> ominobufo wrote:
>> Christian Stauffer ha scritto:
>>> Unless you keep on paying the account after you sold it there will at
>>> least be a change in the billing info.
>> K, beside i changed several times billing information (just because i
>> don't own initially a mine credit card) nothing ever happens. But
>> this can be true. If one would not take the risk, he can just buy
>> game card like i do in the beginning....
>>>
>>>> you have to ask yourself if they'll bother to block it without
>>>> anyone whining about. You know an active paying account is better
>>>> than one less.
>>>
>>> Well, people sure do whine about that
>>> No, to be honest I don't think a big percentage of all sold accounts
>>> is actually banned. But it does happen, it can happen, there's not
>>> much you can do when it happens, and taking over an account from
>>> someone you don't know is pretty risky. Blizzard states the account
>>> is not tradeable, so when I as the original owner of the account
>>> contact blizzard when I can't access my account anymore (because I've
>>> sold it and the new owner changed passwords, or because my account
>>> has been hacked - both is technically exactly the same), I will get
>>> it back. And the one who bought it off me stands there with.. nothing.
>>>
>>> Chris
>> Oh well, this happens for everything, also on ebay or in direct
>> exchange of goods you can get swindled (hope this is the right
>> term...). Generally i give all my trust on my nose ^^'. Something can
>> just be feeled.
>
> Blizzard does not actively hunt for and bann bought accounts. However,
> should there ever arise any dispute or problem of any kind, be that
> account data lost, password lost, trojan, password guessing attack,
> in-game dispute, etc. and someone of their reps. look into the account
> and notices that the account is not on the original buyer, they will
> either stop helping at once or ban it at this point.
>
> They don't have their no-sell policy because they are greedy bastards,
> but it serves primarily to prevent all forms of liabilities and legal
> problems arising with sold, resold, lent, stolen accounts, not to
> mention divorces, revenge actions of one's brother, whatever. This
> would simply cost too much manpower and time to settle, so they have
> this rule and can at anytime simply block it off, telling you that you
> violated rule number one anyway. And this is what they do.
>
> So you "can" sell your account and you "can" buy an account without
> fear of any real-world legal consequence. However, if you do so, you
> have to expect at any time to lose the account, permanently with no
> way of recourse.
>
> CU
>
> René
Someone enlightened wow
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale. 

ominobufo <sorry.DeleteThis@noreply.it> writes:

> And then u think that a video displaying a contract not in my language
> (that maybe I cannot understand) can have some legal validity? I don't
> think so sorry.

Nor do Blizzard. However, that T&L text defines under which conditions
they will provide the server-side services to you. Break them, and
you're out.

You see, that "no contract" thing goes both ways: You are not under
contract not to sell the account. But they are not under contract to
provide a service to you. And they are not under contract not to ban
the account should they discover you sold it. Buyer beware and all
that.

You might end up getting angry emails from the buyer after the account
you sold them is closed, though.
 >> Stay informed about: Account on sale.