Aberrant: First Look questions

Firelock wrote:
> Wayne Shaw <shaw RemoveThis @caprica.com> wrote in message news:<96f1e377e740af26cfbdae51a3cab368 RemoveThis @news.nntpserver.com>...
>
>>On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:29:41 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
>><cavaggione RemoveThis @sbcglobal.not> wrote:
>>
>>>Captain America: Triggered by Super Soldier Serum.
>>
>>Still only works if you buy he was only able to get the benefit
>>because he's a nova. Doesn't work for everyone. And the shield is a
>>problem.
>
>
> How about getting this Aberrant Captain America analog a
> telekinesis-type power that lets him make his shield do
> the "impossible" stuff?
>

Now you're getting into the same region of stuff that makes me
froth psychotically against systems like Champions, where you want a
power X, and Champs has you buy power Y, with Z advantages, A
disadvantages, and B&C for special effects, in order to mimic the
effect of power X.

If the idea is that Cap throws the shield and it ricochets around to
multiple targets and comes back because (A) he's that good at judging
the throw, and (B) the shield supernaturally retains its momentum,
suggesting that you instead make Cap psychokinetic completely
transforms the concept.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
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Sea Wasp wrote:
> Firelock wrote:
>
>> Wayne Shaw <shaw RemoveThis @caprica.com> wrote in message
>> news:<96f1e377e740af26cfbdae51a3cab368 RemoveThis @news.nntpserver.com>...
>>
>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:29:41 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
>>> <cavaggione RemoveThis @sbcglobal.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Captain America: Triggered by Super Soldier Serum.
>>>
>>>
>>> Still only works if you buy he was only able to get the benefit
>>> because he's a nova. Doesn't work for everyone. And the shield is a
>>> problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> How about getting this Aberrant Captain America analog a
>> telekinesis-type power that lets him make his shield do
>> the "impossible" stuff?
>>
>
> Now you're getting into the same region of stuff that makes me froth
> psychotically against systems like Champions, where you want a power X,
> and Champs has you buy power Y, with Z advantages, A disadvantages, and
> B&C for special effects, in order to mimic the effect of power X.
>
> If the idea is that Cap throws the shield and it ricochets around to
> multiple targets and comes back because (A) he's that good at judging
> the throw, and (B) the shield supernaturally retains its momentum,
> suggesting that you instead make Cap psychokinetic completely transforms
> the concept.
>
>


To good naturedly poke holes in your complaint...
....in Champions that would just be a Bounce maneuver. Throw the shield
at a target and use one Combat Skill Level to make it bounce back to
your hand. Or multiple Levels to make multiple bounces to hit a target
from behind or around a corner. And hitting multiple targets with one
throw could be the special effect of the Spread Attack maneuver, if you
didn't want to spend points on a Selective Target Area Effect attack.

--
Michael Sears armitage RemoveThis @mhcable.com
"No turning back where the end is in sight.
There's a job to be done, a fight to be won."



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Michael Sears wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> Firelock wrote:
>>
>>> Wayne Shaw <shaw DeleteThis @caprica.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<96f1e377e740af26cfbdae51a3cab368 DeleteThis @news.nntpserver.com>...
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 03:29:41 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
>>>> <cavaggione DeleteThis @sbcglobal.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Captain America: Triggered by Super Soldier Serum.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Still only works if you buy he was only able to get the benefit
>>>> because he's a nova. Doesn't work for everyone. And the shield is a
>>>> problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How about getting this Aberrant Captain America analog a
>>> telekinesis-type power that lets him make his shield do
>>> the "impossible" stuff?
>>>
>>
>> Now you're getting into the same region of stuff that makes me
>> froth psychotically against systems like Champions, where you want a
>> power X, and Champs has you buy power Y, with Z advantages, A
>> disadvantages, and B&C for special effects, in order to mimic the
>> effect of power X.
>>
>> If the idea is that Cap throws the shield and it ricochets around
>> to multiple targets and comes back because (A) he's that good at
>> judging the throw, and (B) the shield supernaturally retains its
>> momentum, suggesting that you instead make Cap psychokinetic
>> completely transforms the concept.
>>
>>
>
>
> To good naturedly poke holes in your complaint...
> ...in Champions that would just be a Bounce maneuver.

Oh, I wasn't saying Champs can't do Cap. I think it CAN do Cap quite
well, if you like the system.

I was just saying that the "well, we don't have the mechanic you
need, but you can get the same effect by leaping through these three
hoops and setting your ass on fire at the right time" approach that
was being suggested is very reminiscent of Champions' approach to
things. If Champs doesn't have Power X, you build Power X's effect out
of whatever comes to hand, even if whatever comes to hand has nothing
to do with what power X actually IS.

>



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:24:02 GMT, Sea Wasp <seawasp RemoveThis @wizvax.net> wrote:

> I was just saying that the "well, we don't have the mechanic you
>need, but you can get the same effect by leaping through these three
>hoops and setting your ass on fire at the right time" approach that
>was being suggested is very reminiscent of Champions' approach to
>things. If Champs doesn't have Power X, you build Power X's effect out
>of whatever comes to hand, even if whatever comes to hand has nothing
>to do with what power X actually IS.

That's not a unique feature to Champs, Wasp; it applies to any effect
based system. I realize you hate effect based systems with a passion,
but at least know your target.
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:32:55 GMT, Wayne Shaw <shaw RemoveThis @caprica.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:24:02 GMT, Sea Wasp <seawasp RemoveThis @wizvax.net> wrote:
>
>> I was just saying that the "well, we don't have the mechanic you
>>need, but you can get the same effect by leaping through these three
>>hoops and setting your ass on fire at the right time" approach that
>>was being suggested is very reminiscent of Champions' approach to
>>things. If Champs doesn't have Power X, you build Power X's effect out
>>of whatever comes to hand, even if whatever comes to hand has nothing
>>to do with what power X actually IS.
>
>That's not a unique feature to Champs, Wasp; it applies to any effect
>based system. I realize you hate effect based systems with a passion,
>but at least know your target.

Is Aberrant an "effects based system"?
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:06:17 GMT, rgormannospam.RemoveThis@telusplanet.net (David
Johnston) wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 18:32:55 GMT, Wayne Shaw <shaw.RemoveThis@caprica.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 01:24:02 GMT, Sea Wasp <seawasp.RemoveThis@wizvax.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I was just saying that the "well, we don't have the mechanic you
>>>need, but you can get the same effect by leaping through these three
>>>hoops and setting your ass on fire at the right time" approach that
>>>was being suggested is very reminiscent of Champions' approach to
>>>things. If Champs doesn't have Power X, you build Power X's effect out
>>>of whatever comes to hand, even if whatever comes to hand has nothing
>>>to do with what power X actually IS.
>>
>>That's not a unique feature to Champs, Wasp; it applies to any effect
>>based system. I realize you hate effect based systems with a passion,
>>but at least know your target.
>
>Is Aberrant an "effects based system"?

Twixt and tween. It's not shy about creating new powers, but it's
also prone to considering a lot of distinctions just psychological
special effects because of the setting assumptions.
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

Sea Wasp wrote:
<snip>
> I was just saying that the "well, we don't have the mechanic you
> need, but you can get the same effect by leaping through these three
> hoops and setting your ass on fire at the right time" approach that was
> being suggested is very reminiscent of Champions' approach to things. If
> Champs doesn't have Power X, you build Power X's effect out of whatever
> comes to hand, even if whatever comes to hand has nothing to do with
> what power X actually IS.

A lot of people see this as a strength, not a weakness. It means that
the system itself doesn't need to be as hugely complex, since it doesn't
have to try to provide every possible power as a discreet thing. It
also means that the players have to use their brains occasionally, which
is /also/ a good thing.

Personally, I don't think Hero took it far enough. They provided a
number of 'shortcut' powers which are pre-limited. Armor is basically
Force Field [0END, Invisible], ranged and hand-to-hand killing attacks
can be interchanged with the right mods, etc.

In fact it's often cheaper or more concept-accurate to buy the wrong
power and mod it. Not simpler though

--
Corey Murtagh
The Electric Monk
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!"
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> AND the fact that his origin and shield aren't really in the
> picture pretty much completes the impossibility. Cap may not BE his
> Shield, but it IS one of the things that defines him.

Captain America could totally be created in Adventure!, and to a
higher-powered extent, Aberrant.

His shield should be doable either way. In the first case, the serum
triggered his latent Z-waves. In the latter, the serum triggered his
eruption. Of course, both are terms for exactly the same thing, but
that's beside the point.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene.TakeThisOut@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

Sidhain wrote:
>
> > >(Makes me wonder about te fixed successes for Strength in Aberrant *L*)
> > >
> >
> > Well, it's just a pain in the ass to use dice for values as high as
> > they'd want otherwise.
>
> True. (of course I feel more than 10dice is often too many to roll /ever/)

So, I created a Dragon-Blooded character the other day. She's a bit
optimized for this, but can dodge with 19 dice. If she needs to abort to
defense, that's 19 vs. the first, 18 vs. the second and so on.

Not particularly cumbersome, but it should be a good amount for most
threats.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene.RemoveThis@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

David Johnston wrote:
>
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:51:13 GMT, John Turner
> <averyk.RemoveThis@ev1.REMOVETHISBITTOREPLY.net> wrote:
>
> >It really strikes me like a lot of WW games. Nice to look at with
> >great background material and a unique world, but no balance at all.
>
> That's the natural outgrowth of an emphasis on "story" to the
> exclusion of "game".

Something that Aberrant...nor any other ST game...does.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene.RemoveThis@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

Julie d'Aubigny wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> AND the fact that his origin and shield aren't really in the
>>picture pretty much completes the impossibility. Cap may not BE his
>>Shield, but it IS one of the things that defines him.
>
>
> Captain America could totally be created in Adventure!, and to a
> higher-powered extent, Aberrant.
>
> His shield should be doable either way. In the first case, the serum
> triggered his latent Z-waves. In the latter, the serum triggered his
> eruption. Of course, both are terms for exactly the same thing, but
> that's beside the point.
>

How do you do the Shield in Aberrant? I can't find a rule that
would fit. (aside from the Champions approach: handwave with other
powers for the same effect, but I refuse to go down the Dark Path)




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

"Julie d'Aubigny" <kali.magdalene DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4095F87C.9180F94F@comcast.net...
> Sidhain wrote:
> >
> > > >(Makes me wonder about te fixed successes for Strength in Aberrant
*L*)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, it's just a pain in the ass to use dice for values as high as
> > > they'd want otherwise.
> >
> > True. (of course I feel more than 10dice is often too many to roll
/ever/)
>
> So, I created a Dragon-Blooded character the other day. She's a bit
> optimized for this, but can dodge with 19 dice. If she needs to abort to
> defense, that's 19 vs. the first, 18 vs. the second and so on.
>
> Not particularly cumbersome, but it should be a good amount for most
> threats.
>
> --

It's not the power level, its the physical amount of dice rolled.

It's tedious and cumbersome.
 >> Stay informed about: Aberrant: First Look questions 

Julie d'Aubigny <kali.magdalene.RemoveThis@comcast.net> abagooba zoink larblortch
news:4095F87C.9180F94F@comcast.net:

> Sidhain wrote:
>>
>> > >(Makes me wonder about te fixed successes for Strength in Aberrant
>> > >*L*)
>> > >
>> >
>> > Well, it's just a pain in the ass to use dice for values as high as
>> > they'd want otherwise.
>>
>> True. (of course I feel more than 10dice is often too many to roll
>> /ever/)
>
> So, I created a Dragon-Blooded character the other day. She's a bit
> optimized for this, but can dodge with 19 dice. If she needs to abort
> to defense, that's 19 vs. the first, 18 vs. the second and so on.
>
> Not particularly cumbersome, but it should be a good amount for most
> threats.

Extremely cumbersome. Rolling and reading 19 dice monumentally cumbersome.
It's worse than even the vast majority of Champions.
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