 |
|
 |
|
Next: Burning Crusade
|
| Author |
Message |
External

Since: Sep 14, 2005 Posts: 34
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather Archived from groups: alt>games>microsoft>flight-sim (more info?)
|
|
|
Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
Half of Denmark is buried in snow after a blizzard last evening and night. I
decided lastnight to take a small trip in my MD-83 around Copenhagen airport
(EKCH).
The airport has three runways - 4-22 L, 4-22 R and 12-30. 12-30 is normally
never used, except in severe weather conditions, since it brings planes
under approach (or take-off) directly over central Copenhagen. Last night we
had strong eastern winds (30 mph) and the airport was running at only 30%
capacity (snow, wind, de-icing capacity etc).
When I approached EKCH (it was VFR) and asked ATC for a full-stop landing
they rejected and informed that the airport was only IFR-rules. That makes
sense since visibility was worse than poor due to low clouds and snowfall. I
changed to IFR and repeated my request. I was cleared for landing on 4L.
That surprised me since it would mean an approach in strong cross-wind. I
had expected landing on 12 which would give me more or less direct headwind.
Actually, when I think about it, they (FS ATC) always use 4L and 4R. I have
never landed on 22 - in real life they are used more or less fifty-fifty,
depending on the weather.
Hence my question above. Has anybody experience in this? Real weather has no
meaning if ATC does not take the actual weather into consideration.
Regards
Drus >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 05, 2006 Posts: 355
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Drus wrote:
> Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
> had expected landing on 12 which would give me more or less direct headwind.
>
> Actually, when I think about it, they (FS ATC) always use 4L and 4R. I have
> never landed on 22 - in real life they are used more or less fifty-fifty,
> depending on the weather.
>
> Hence my question above. Has anybody experience in this? Real weather has no
> meaning if ATC does not take the actual weather into consideration.
The short answer is yes and no. FS ATC will change runways depending on
weather, but it has a lot of limitations that real-world ops don't. Most
glaring among these is that FS will _never_ use runways that intersect
other runways (as does 12/30 in the case of EKCH). It will simply take
the longer of the two (or the runway with a twin, as in 4L/R), and use
it to the exclusion of the other. FS is pretty lazy about using opposite
runways when you change the winds around; I've set up to 50 knots direct
headwind and still seen a tailwind approach given (might be related to
having traffic already in the pattern for the original runway).
My home airport, KLGB, has a 10K foot runway that most jet/heavy traffic
uses, as well as a pair of shorter 5K foot runways used mostly by light
GA/helicopters (with a second pair perpendicular to the first, for
really strange weather). In FS, only the long runway is ever given,
regardless of wind or aircraft, and taking a clearance on the shorter
runways is not an option. I can only surmise that the ATC would be
overwhelmed in making sure that conflicting runways don't overrun each
other, so they kept it out of the programming.
I have, however, seen FS change runways on, say, KLAX, to the sea-bound
runways for approach (so that takeoffs occur over the land). In reality,
they never, ever, ever, for any reason, change those runways around (the
neighbors would be in fits if they did, plus the airspace isn't designed
for approaches and takeoffs in that direction). So, YMMV.
TheSmokingGnu >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Apr 23, 2004 Posts: 10
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
TheSmokingGnu wrote:
> Drus wrote:
>> Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
>> had expected landing on 12 which would give me more or less direct
>> headwind.
>
> I have, however, seen FS change runways on, say, KLAX, to the sea-bound
> runways for approach (so that takeoffs occur over the land). In reality,
> they never, ever, ever, for any reason, change those runways around (the
> neighbors would be in fits if they did, plus the airspace isn't designed
> for approaches and takeoffs in that direction). So, YMMV.
In fact, real-life LAX does land/takeoff to the east sometimes. When
they do, Long Beach usually turns things around, too, to keep the flight
paths out of each other's way. But I'm getting a bit off-topic. . .
___
Neil >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 23, 2006 Posts: 345
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Drus" <drusATmail.dk> wrote in message
news:45de1ee6$0$48428$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
> Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
>
> Half of Denmark is buried in snow after a blizzard last evening and night.
> I
> decided lastnight to take a small trip in my MD-83 around Copenhagen
> airport
> (EKCH).
>
> The airport has three runways - 4-22 L, 4-22 R and 12-30. 12-30 is
> normally
> never used, except in severe weather conditions, since it brings planes
> under approach (or take-off) directly over central Copenhagen. Last night
> we
> had strong eastern winds (30 mph) and the airport was running at only 30%
> capacity (snow, wind, de-icing capacity etc).
>
> When I approached EKCH (it was VFR) and asked ATC for a full-stop landing
> they rejected and informed that the airport was only IFR-rules. That makes
> sense since visibility was worse than poor due to low clouds and snowfall.
> I changed to IFR and repeated my request. I was cleared for landing on 4L.
> That surprised me since it would mean an approach in strong cross-wind. I
> had expected landing on 12 which would give me more or less direct
> headwind.
>
> Actually, when I think about it, they (FS ATC) always use 4L and 4R. I
> have never landed on 22 - in real life they are used more or less
> fifty-fifty, depending on the weather.
>
> Hence my question above. Has anybody experience in this? Real weather has
> no meaning if ATC does not take the actual weather into consideration.
It would depend on how strong of a crosswind. Below some threshold, the
advantage of vertical guidance and a precision approach far overweighs the
crosswind. They would have said something like "ILS 4L in use", or "expect
vectors for ILS 4L." IRL, you could request ILS 4L, circle to land rwy 12
for wind. It's been quite a while since I let the FS ATC vector me around;
it makes wind corrections by stairstepping, vectoring you with the
uncorrected course rather than a heading you can fly. I just fly the
procedures as published, mentally saying to myself "cleared for the
approach" as I hit the IAF. >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 05, 2006 Posts: 355
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:15 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Neil Wagner wrote:
> In fact, real-life LAX does land/takeoff to the east sometimes. When
> they do, Long Beach usually turns things around, too, to keep the flight
> paths out of each other's way.
Maybe that's why everyone always looks so grumpy when I have to head
downtown.
I always thought LGB changed patterns when we get Santa Ana winds, or a
wierd sea breeze, but I didn't think LAX changed around because of noise
abatement rules, not to mention that the departure vectors either take
them over Santa Monica or straight down the 91 out to Ontario before
they can turn; maybe they could get away with a southern route if they
climbed real fast?
Anyway, yes, OT.
TheSmokingGnu >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Dec 17, 2006 Posts: 49
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:45de1ee6$0$48428$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
> Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
>
> Actually, when I think about it, they (FS ATC) always use 4L and 4R. I
have
> never landed on 22 - in real life they are used more or less fifty-fifty,
> depending on the weather.
>
> Hence my question above. Has anybody experience in this? Real weather has
no
> meaning if ATC does not take the actual weather into consideration.
>
> Regards
> Drus
>
>
I live directly under the final for RW 12, and I can tell you, that it's the
one they've been using for the past days, comming in a litle low (very low
actually).
In FS9 I've had a few guided landings at 12, and eaven one or two on 22, but
that only happens if it gives me a tail wind??
If I get home from a long flight with winds from the North, I change the
weather, because it's so damn difficult to clear Oresundsbron, and still hit
some tarmac  )
Tommy C
It's nice to be a god, some times ;o) >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Sep 14, 2005 Posts: 34
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"TOCA" <Virker.DeleteThis@ikke.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:45df232d$0$852$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:45de1ee6$0$48428$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>> Does the FS ATC ever adapt to downloaded real weather?
>>
>> Actually, when I think about it, they (FS ATC) always use 4L and 4R. I
> have
>> never landed on 22 - in real life they are used more or less fifty-fifty,
>> depending on the weather.
>>
>> Hence my question above. Has anybody experience in this? Real weather has
> no
>> meaning if ATC does not take the actual weather into consideration.
>>
>> Regards
>> Drus
>>
>>
>
> I live directly under the final for RW 12, and I can tell you, that it's
> the
> one they've been using for the past days, comming in a litle low (very low
> actually).
>
> In FS9 I've had a few guided landings at 12, and eaven one or two on 22,
> but
> that only happens if it gives me a tail wind??
>
> If I get home from a long flight with winds from the North, I change the
> weather, because it's so damn difficult to clear Oresundsbron, and still
> hit
> some tarmac )
>
> Tommy C
> It's nice to be a god, some times ;o)
>
>
>Yeah, that's what I expected! That runway is very rarely used nowadays - I
>am travelling a lot (also in real life) and I have only landed there once
>(and that was a "security-landing" with blue flashing light all over and
>following our A/C all the way to the gate).
But te weather the last few days, with heavy wind from east and the reduced
capacity on landings and take-offs made me assume that 12-30 was in use.
Guess you are looking forward to more normal conditions?
Drus >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Dec 17, 2006 Posts: 49
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:45df821f$0$47396$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>
>
> But te weather the last few days, with heavy wind from east and the
reduced
> capacity on landings and take-offs made me assume that 12-30 was in use.
>
> Guess you are looking forward to more normal conditions?
>
> Drus
>
I just took a go at it, and was directed to land at 12, and winds from
around 240deg., yes a up wind landing
In FS I don't care much about the weather, the temperature is always right
;o)
But IRL I'm looking forward to late April, when temperatures get to the good
side of 10'C (thats 50'F for you foreigners ;o) )
Tommy C >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 18, 2006 Posts: 658
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
I think the Afcad files that allow crossing runways take care of this
problem. Look around in both Avsim and Flightsim for the more advanced
Afcad files for the Airports you fly in and out of.
Remember to try them out first. Sometimes one Afcad file has some errors
and you have to look around for another. For the great scenery for KLGA I
had to go thru 3 or 4 afcad files before I found one that was working
properly. I even had one of the error afcads that had the ILS frequency for
one runway slightly off the angle. Very weird so I got rid of it really
fast.
Example:
So now, depending on the weather this allows me to use both of the runways
in both directions for KLGA.
Warning; From what I understand you must make sure you have only ONE Afcad
file for each airport. If you like one file move it to another temp
directory and search for a better one. If you have the one you want in
another directory either delete that one that doesn't work or move it out of
the FS directory. Dont take a chance in case the Afcad has a slightly
different name and it wont replace the Afcad thats already there.
Not4wood
"TOCA" <Virker.TakeThisOut@ikke.dk> wrote in message
news:45e0681d$0$835$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk...
>
> "Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:45df821f$0$47396$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>>
>>
>> But te weather the last few days, with heavy wind from east and the
> reduced
>> capacity on landings and take-offs made me assume that 12-30 was in use.
>>
>> Guess you are looking forward to more normal conditions?
>>
>> Drus
>>
>
> I just took a go at it, and was directed to land at 12, and winds from
> around 240deg., yes a up wind landing
>
> In FS I don't care much about the weather, the temperature is always right
> ;o)
> But IRL I'm looking forward to late April, when temperatures get to the
> good
> side of 10'C (thats 50'F for you foreigners ;o) )
>
> Tommy C
>
> >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Dec 17, 2006 Posts: 49
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Not4wood" <no_mgottes DeleteThis @spam_verizon.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:K_%Dh.13666$sv6.3461@trndny08...
> I think the Afcad files that allow crossing runways take care of this
> problem. Look around in both Avsim and Flightsim for the more advanced
> Afcad files for the Airports you fly in and out of.
>
> Remember to try them out first. Sometimes one Afcad file has some errors
> and you have to look around for another. For the great scenery for KLGA I
> had to go thru 3 or 4 afcad files before I found one that was working
> properly. I even had one of the error afcads that had the ILS frequency
for
> one runway slightly off the angle. Very weird so I got rid of it really
> fast.
>
> Example:
> So now, depending on the weather this allows me to use both of the runways
> in both directions for KLGA.
>
> Warning; From what I understand you must make sure you have only ONE Afcad
> file for each airport. If you like one file move it to another temp
> directory and search for a better one. If you have the one you want in
> another directory either delete that one that doesn't work or move it out
of
> the FS directory. Dont take a chance in case the Afcad has a slightly
> different name and it wont replace the Afcad thats already there.
>
> Not4wood
>
Hmmm....Maybe I'm being directed to diferent RW's according to
winddirection, because I'm using some addons for EKCH?
Basicly its a few files to place buildings, taxiways, runways, etc. in the
right places, and some dynamic scenery files, like "Follow Me" cars.
Tommy C >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 15, 2007 Posts: 12
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:22:28 +0100, "TOCA" <Virker RemoveThis @ikke.dk> wrote:
>
>"Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>news:45df821f$0$47396$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>>
>>
>> But te weather the last few days, with heavy wind from east and the
>reduced
>> capacity on landings and take-offs made me assume that 12-30 was in use.
>>
>> Guess you are looking forward to more normal conditions?
>>
>> Drus
>>
>
>I just took a go at it, and was directed to land at 12, and winds from
>around 240deg., yes a up wind landing
>
>In FS I don't care much about the weather, the temperature is always right
>;o)
>But IRL I'm looking forward to late April, when temperatures get to the good
>side of 10'C (thats 50'F for you foreigners ;o) )
>
>Tommy C
>
IRL, I am also looking forward to April, when temperatures get to the
good (low) side of 30ºC! The older I get, the less I like temperatures
outside of 10º - 30º. This year in South Australia we have had another
drought, although there has also been some damage from very localised
flash flooding. Temperatures have been around 40º far too often for my
liking. The only redeeming thing is that we get dry heat here
(humidity was about 5% one day), but in coastal New South Wales and
Queensland they get hot and soggy - correct, JW? >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
External

Since: Feb 15, 2005 Posts: 1613
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Hi Martin C,
"... but in coastal New South Wales and Queensland they get hot and
soggy - correct, JW?"
100% spot on and correct, mate!!
I lived in Adelaide for ~ 6 years, so I know what you mean by those
40*+/5% humidity days.
Up here in Brisbane, strewth, you can go for a swim just by walking down
the street sometimes!
I find it can be much more oppressive than Singapore was, but Darwin can
be even worse during "The Wet".
Up there it's 32 on a cold day, 33 on a normal day, and 34 on a stinker,
and the daily thunderstorm rolls in ~ 5 minutes to 4 each day, bringing a
wave of cooler air and some breeze, plus the spectacular lightning and
thunder...
Regards,
John Ward
"Martin C" <mkcowley.RemoveThis@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:tqo1u251g1248gnf7me923rrj00igf33as@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 16:22:28 +0100, "TOCA" <Virker.RemoveThis@ikke.dk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Drus" <drusATmail.dk> skrev i en meddelelse
>>news:45df821f$0$47396$edfadb0f@dread16.news.tele.dk...
>>>
>>>
>>> But te weather the last few days, with heavy wind from east and the
>>reduced
>>> capacity on landings and take-offs made me assume that 12-30 was in use.
>>>
>>> Guess you are looking forward to more normal conditions?
>>>
>>> Drus
>>>
>>
>>I just took a go at it, and was directed to land at 12, and winds from
>>around 240deg., yes a up wind landing
>>
>>In FS I don't care much about the weather, the temperature is always right
>>;o)
>>But IRL I'm looking forward to late April, when temperatures get to the
>>good
>>side of 10'C (thats 50'F for you foreigners ;o) )
>>
>>Tommy C
>>
> IRL, I am also looking forward to April, when temperatures get to the
> good (low) side of 30ºC! The older I get, the less I like temperatures
> outside of 10º - 30º. This year in South Australia we have had another
> drought, although there has also been some damage from very localised
> flash flooding. Temperatures have been around 40º far too often for my
> liking. The only redeeming thing is that we get dry heat here
> (humidity was about 5% one day), but in coastal New South Wales and
> Queensland they get hot and soggy - correct, JW? >> Stay informed about: ATC choice of active runway - and real weather |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |  |
| Related Topics: | Real Weather - I have been doing a series of training flights in my new Flight One 727 and usually 'pop' over to Ozzy to the Coolangatta field and head off on the short hop to Brisbane landing on ILS runway 1. Yesterday I had a wild flight using just the Jepperson..
Real Weather - I have been doing a series of training flights in my new Flight One 727 and usually 'pop' over to Ozzy to the Coolangatta field and head off on the short hop to Brisbane landing on ILS runway 1. Yesterday I had a wild flight using just the Jepperson..
Irritating Real Weather Pop Up - I know there must be more people than me who use the Real Weather feature on FS9. Usually, I like the way it works but for the life of me, cannot understand why I get a black screen every 10 seconds with a pop-up telling me the stupid program can't get....
Real weather conditions - Is anyone experiencing getting FS9 to download the realism weather conditions from Jeppesson tonight? It was working fine earlier today. I haven't had this problem before. Thanks in advance, Steve
A question on real world weather - Just been doing some interior decorating (unusual for me - I hate it!) and while wielding a paint brush (extremely dangerous!) I was musing on the real world weather used by ActiveSky and FS9. I guess that the vast majority of reporting stations are.. |
|
You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|