 |
|
|
|
Next: Thangorodrim ftp site dead?
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:55 am
Post subject: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e
Archived from groups: rec>games>roguelike>angband (more info?)
|
|
|
I've put together a bunch of changes to V that I hope improve the game.
My underlying goals are to improve squelch, remove any need for taking notes,
and to reduce the impact of identify. I've also included a few requests.
I started out trying to make only minimal changes to game balance, but I have
included the enormous change of disallowing selling items to stores because
it really improves the game, and also encourages people to do more squelching.
Hopefully this is mostly savefile compatible with V 3.0.9, but I recommend
against transferring savefiles of live characters using randarts.
The code is definitely alpha quality, but it is playable, and I would like
people to try it sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, I still have not
yet implemented generalized ego squelch. Real life has intruded.
Andrew has kindly compiled a windows executable and is hosting the patched
code on rephial. Here are the links.
The source is
http://rephial.org/downloads/3.0/angband-3.0.9e.tar.gz
The windows version should be
http://rephial.org/downloads/3.0/angband-3.0.9e-win.zip
Here is the list of changes grouped into categories.
Tedium and Notetaking
* Note temp resists under '@' on status screen
* Change !selfKnowledge to *IDENTIFY all items wielded
* Give description of artifact activations without IDENT_MENTAL
* Learn flavor when scroll of trap creation is read
* Treat NO_FUEL as permanent lite on status screen
* Point-based character generation equivalent to best available from autoroller
* Mark items for sale that are unaware
* New command to restock a store for the cost of all items for sale
* Apply autoinscriptions to items learned by testing
* Show charges on aware wands and staves without identify
* Failed destruction of artifact identifies it
* Give free identify on non-jewelry that pseudos as average
Show the Rules
* Show raw numbers rather than ratings on 'C' page
* Realize non-pseudoed wielded items average when anything pseudos
* Keep original names for randarts
* Pseudo of artifact identifies it
* Show energy rather than speed on 'C' page
Misc
* Learn flavors that damage when thrown
* Rest with '|' to wait until either mana or hp are max
* Narya, Nenya, and Vilya unchanged in randarts
* Remove aggravation from randarts
* Armory sells cloaks
* Add ACTIVATE flag to objects that activate when omitted in artifact.txt
* Stores restock max items faster
* Stolen gold is carried by thief
* Disallow selling items to stores
* Increase gold drops in the dungeon to partially mitigate no money from selling
Squelch
* Allow squelching of unaware flavors
* Notice obvious effects when wielding unidentified objects
* New pseudo level "Splendid" meaning obvious bonuses when wielded
* Keep track of items that have been wielded with "tried"
* Treat uncursed the same as cursed for quality squelch purposes
* Sort by name rather than SVAL in some squelch menus
* Unsquelch flavors bought from a store
* Add permanent light to artifacts that otherwise would not be splendid
* Differentiate quality squelch into subcategories
* Allow quality squelching of lights
* Squelch oil like spikes
* Minor changes to a few standard artifacts to make them splendid
* Treat weapons with base damage >= 15 as excellent when squelching by quality
* Allow pseudo on jewelry
Splendid: obvious bonuses when wielded
Excellent: elemental resists, FA, SI, regen
Good: plusses to hit/dam/AC |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Nov 15, 2007
Posts: 45
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Dec 7, 10:55 am, Eddie Grove <eddiegr... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've put together a bunch of changes to V that I hope improve the game.
Bringing back good quality squelch is a necessity. I much prefer the
NPP model to what is in V currently. It sounds like what you have
done is significantly better. (And adding pseudo to jewelry a la ToME
is a very nice idea.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
pete m <pmac360.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> writes:
> On Dec 7, 10:55 am, Eddie Grove <eddiegr....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I've put together a bunch of changes to V that I hope improve the game.
>
> Bringing back good quality squelch is a necessity. I much prefer the
> NPP model to what is in V currently. It sounds like what you have
> done is significantly better. (And adding pseudo to jewelry a la ToME
> is a very nice idea.)
Pseudo on jewelry is the weakest part.
I really don't know what should be good vs excellent.
As it is now, squelching average gets rid of sustain rings which is pretty
useful, and players with no interest in accuracy/damage/slaying can squelch
good. There is probably a better way, but I couldn't figure it out.
-----------------------
There are four egos that are not splendid but I hardly ever want to squelch
them. Robes of Permanence, Hats of Serenity, Boots of Stability, and Shields
of Preservation. Perhaps I should have given them PLITE or something, but
that's a level of gameplay change I didn't want to make. If you cannot tell
easily in current V, I decided it should stay that way.
When I get to squelching splendid armor, I autoinscribe robes !d!k and test
with acidballs. It would be nice if there was a way to test with acidbolts.
For the ultimate in squelching, play a priest. You can start the game
squelching all but splendid pointy weapons. Use OoD to make sure nothing is
cursed [or keep removeCurse in reserve], wield them one after another, and
watch them disappear.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: May 05, 2006
Posts: 50
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:37 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On Dec 8, 12:00 pm, Nick <nckmccn... RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > There are four egos that are not splendid but I hardly ever want to squelch
> > them. Robes of Permanence, Hats of Serenity, Boots of Stability, and Shields
> > of Preservation. Perhaps I should have given them PLITE or something, but
> > that's a level of gameplay change I didn't want to make. If you cannot tell
> > easily in current V, I decided it should stay that way.
>
> Just off the top of my head, how does the idea of squelching via the knowledge
> menus sound? I would envisage some overlap between quality squelch and ego
> squelch, which may not be a bad thing.
>
> In any case, I will incorporate some of the Eddie patch with some form of ego
> squelch in the next FAangband.
I implemented an auto-inscription 'squelch-like' system for Unangband
using the knowledge menus. Looking at an object or ego, you can hi
{ to inscribe and } to uninscribe the object. =d to not pickup the
item, =i to not see the item (ever), =k to automatically destroy the
item when you step on it.
It automatically inscribes the item at either creation time, for
normal non-flavoured items, or at identification time for flavoured
items and egos.
Andrew >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Apr 14, 2005
Posts: 92
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On 2007-12-07 22:36:39, Eddie Grove <eddiegrove.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> pete m writes:
>
> > Bringing back good quality squelch is a necessity. I much prefer the
> > NPP model to what is in V currently. It sounds like what you have
> > done is significantly better. (And adding pseudo to jewelry a la ToME
> > is a very nice idea.)
snip
> There are four egos that are not splendid but I hardly ever want to squelch
> them. Robes of Permanence, Hats of Serenity, Boots of Stability, and Shields
> of Preservation. Perhaps I should have given them PLITE or something, but
> that's a level of gameplay change I didn't want to make. If you cannot tell
> easily in current V, I decided it should stay that way.
Just off the top of my head, how does the idea of squelching via the knowledge
menus sound? I would envisage some overlap between quality squelch and ego
squelch, which may not be a bad thing.
In any case, I will incorporate some of the Eddie patch with some form of ego
squelch in the next FAangband.
Nick.
--
"There is no safety, and there is no end. The word must be heard in silence;
there must be darkness to see the stars. The dance is always danced above the
hollow place, above the terrible abyss."
- The Farthest Shore, Ursula Le Guin >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Nick <nckmccnnll.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> In any case, I will incorporate some of the Eddie patch with some form of ego
> squelch in the next FAangband.
>
> Nick.
You might want to wait a few months. The code is not robust. E.g. if you put
on a ring giving con(-3), you learn the flavor immediately. If you put on a
ring giving int(-3), it might be either int or stupidity, so you don't learn
the flavor unless you already know the other one. That's hard-coded for now
and wouldn't work properly if your variant includes things like rings of
unhealth. I'll fix things eventually, but for now there are lots of code
fragments that are not ready for a real release.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 71
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:87sl2emj1i.fsf@hotmail.com...
>
> I've put together a bunch of changes to V that I hope improve the game.
> My underlying goals are to improve squelch, remove any need for taking
> notes,
> and to reduce the impact of identify. I've also included a few requests.
>
> I started out trying to make only minimal changes to game balance, but I
> have
> included the enormous change of disallowing selling items to stores
> because
> it really improves the game, and also encourages people to do more
> squelching.
This all sounds very exciting - might tempt me back to V for a bit.
> Tedium and Notetaking
> * Note temp resists under '@' on status screen
> * Change !selfKnowledge to *IDENTIFY all items wielded
Have you made them rarer? They weren't too common in the first place, but
they're now really rather useful.
> * Give description of artifact activations without IDENT_MENTAL
Don't think I understand this, but also don't think it matters much.
> * Learn flavor when scroll of trap creation is read
This is long overdue
> * Treat NO_FUEL as permanent lite on status screen
This is because you did something funny to things with plite, right? No,
that's about making sure they pseudo as splendid. What's this for then?
> * Point-based character generation equivalent to best available from
> autoroller
Well done! Max total starting stats is 85, is that right? Point-based
clearly the way to go now.
> * Mark items for sale that are unaware
Genius. Thank you.
> * New command to restock a store for the cost of all items for sale
> * Apply autoinscriptions to items learned by testing
> * Show charges on aware wands and staves without identify
> * Failed destruction of artifact identifies it
> * Give free identify on non-jewelry that pseudos as average
All helpful, though I'm not sure what the autoinscriptions are.
> Show the Rules
> * Show raw numbers rather than ratings on 'C' page
> * Realize non-pseudoed wielded items average when anything pseudos
Very nice.
> * Keep original names for randarts
All this does is expose the weakness of the old power algorithm. Why not
give some newer code a try? You can get it from
http://www.terminalarrogance.com/randarts.zip
Could still be interesting to keep the names I guess.
> * Pseudo of artifact identifies it
But not *ID* I guess.
> * Show energy rather than speed on 'C' page
>
> Misc
> * Learn flavors that damage when thrown
> * Rest with '|' to wait until either mana or hp are max
> * Narya, Nenya, and Vilya unchanged in randarts
> * Remove aggravation from randarts
Again, new code removes too-frequent aggravation.
> * Armory sells cloaks
> * Add ACTIVATE flag to objects that activate when omitted in artifact.txt
> * Stores restock max items faster
> * Stolen gold is carried by thief
> * Disallow selling items to stores
> * Increase gold drops in the dungeon to partially mitigate no money from
> selling
Very interested to try this.
> Squelch
> * Allow squelching of unaware flavors
Thereby making the game totally risk-free?
> * Notice obvious effects when wielding unidentified objects
> * New pseudo level "Splendid" meaning obvious bonuses when wielded
> * Keep track of items that have been wielded with "tried"
> * Treat uncursed the same as cursed for quality squelch purposes
> * Sort by name rather than SVAL in some squelch menus
> * Unsquelch flavors bought from a store
Nice touch.
> * Add permanent light to artifacts that otherwise would not be splendid
> * Differentiate quality squelch into subcategories
> * Allow quality squelching of lights
> * Squelch oil like spikes
?? Don't understand this. One might need oil for lanterns, when one has
decided to squelch spikes.
> * Minor changes to a few standard artifacts to make them splendid
> * Treat weapons with base damage >= 15 as excellent when squelching by
> quality
> * Allow pseudo on jewelry
> Splendid: obvious bonuses when wielded
> Excellent: elemental resists, FA, SI, regen
> Good: plusses to hit/dam/AC
Yup, good stuff. Looking forward to trying it.
CC >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Magnate" <contact.me.RemoveThis@some.other.way> writes:
> This is long overdue
>
> > * Treat NO_FUEL as permanent lite on status screen
Just so you can see what has permanent light. Surely the Phial should count
as having permanent light, shouldn't it?
> > * Point-based character generation equivalent to best available from
> > autoroller
>
> Well done! Max total starting stats is 85, is that right? Point-based
> clearly the way to go now.
Not so simple. Non-mentioned start at 10.
2 @ 18
or
3 @ 17
or
4 @ 16
or
6 @ 14
Unfortunately not 5 @ 15. 4 @ 15 + 1 @ 14. Oh well.
You can get 3 @ 17 with the autoroller if you are patient. That was my base.
I don't particularly care what the choices are so long as tedium with the
autoroller gives no advantage.
> > * New command to restock a store for the cost of all items for sale
> > * Apply autoinscriptions to items learned by testing
> > * Show charges on aware wands and staves without identify
> > * Failed destruction of artifact identifies it
> > * Give free identify on non-jewelry that pseudos as average
>
> All helpful, though I'm not sure what the autoinscriptions are.
Go to the object info screen, select an item, and use '{' to inscribe
all such items when you pick them up. I autoinscribe the second spellbook
@p2 @G2. I autoinscribe ?id with @r1.
I autoinscribe robes !d!k when I squelch all but splendid body armor.
> > * Keep original names for randarts
>
> All this does is expose the weakness of the old power algorithm. Why not
People occasionally post asking where something came from. It came in useful
in my last game where I was able to discard a couple artifacts without *ID
since from the base I could tell not worth using the precious scroll.
More to the point, I want to show the activations without IDENT_MENTAL
and that makes a little more sense if you know the name.
Basically, just because I like it. 
> > * Pseudo of artifact identifies it
>
> But not *ID* I guess.
*ID for standard, not for randarts. That's minimal gameplay change under the
"show the rules" directive.
> > Squelch
> > * Allow squelching of unaware flavors
>
> Thereby making the game totally risk-free?
You can squelch a ring of foobar. Not very smart if foobar is speed.
You can squelch all mushrooms from the start [that was a request].
If I wield a ring with a priest, it is cursed but not minus to strength con or
speed, I squelch that flavor without knowing what it does.
This is useful if you know aggravation or teleportation, but technically have
not learned the flavor. I hate having to take notes on "this flavor is that".
> > * Squelch oil like spikes
>
> ?? Don't understand this. One might need oil for lanterns, when one has
> decided to squelch spikes.
Same godawful exclusive menu interface. That's all I meant.
I tried putting it into the lights quality menu but the code got too ucky.
Besides, you can throw oil. Perhaps it deserves its own menu.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 04, 2007
Posts: 46
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 23
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Man, I really like everything you've done in this patch except for these two:
> * Stolen gold is carried by thief
> * Disallow selling items to stores
I'm kinda wishing I get the patch with everything except those two things (and
without the increased gold drops which would be unnesesary if you took these
out). But I'll try the game with the patch how it is and see if I get enough
gold drops to make up for not being able to sell stuff. If it turns out that I
like it, I'll probably add the patch to my semi-variant DaJAngband (I never
announced that in rgra, did I?, I guess I should). You wouldn't mind if I added
it to my semi-variant, would you?
If I still don't like not being able to sell to stores, is there any chance of
getting a version of that patch without the changes I mentioned? Because I'd
like to put the rest of the changes in my semi-variant.
Anyway, good work on the patch and thanks >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
will_asher <will_asher RemoveThis @yahoo.com> writes:
> Man, I really like everything you've done in this patch except for these two:
>
> > * Stolen gold is carried by thief
Not actually my idea. Someone made me a request I could not refuse.
It hardly makes a difference. There are people who really want this,
and since it doesn't really matter, why not make them happy?
It is a bit more important in a game with less money.
> > * Disallow selling items to stores
Play 4 games past 500' and you will see the light.
The game is so much better. At least give it a try.
> I'm kinda wishing I get the patch with everything except those two things (and
> without the increased gold drops which would be unnesesary if you took these
> out). But I'll try the game with the patch how it is and see if I get enough
> gold drops to make up for not being able to sell stuff. If it turns out that I
> like it, I'll probably add the patch to my semi-variant DaJAngband (I never
> announced that in rgra, did I?, I guess I should). You wouldn't mind if I added
> it to my semi-variant, would you?
As I mentioned before, the code is not yet suitable for cloning, but you are
welcome to it of course. I did everything with ifdefs and tried to comment
most with the keyword EFGchange in the comments. You should be able to pick
and choose what you want.
> If I still don't like not being able to sell to stores, is there any chance of
That's just a few lines in store.c, easily found and modified.
Be sure also to set GOLD_DROP_MULT to 1 in object2.c if you take it out.
But before you go changing what I did, why not give it a sincere try?
Perhaps you will learn to appreciate why I did it.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 23
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
On 2007-12-10 19:59:01, Eddie Grove <eddiegrove DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> will_asher writes:
>
> > Man, I really like everything you've done in this patch except for these two:
> >
> But before you go changing what I did, why not give it a sincere try?
> Perhaps you will learn to appreciate why I did it.
I will give it a couple tries first before I change it, of course.
Would it be better if I wait till I wait for a newer version of the patch before
putting it in my semi-variant? >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
will_asher <will_asher.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> writes:
> On 2007-12-10 19:59:01, Eddie Grove <eddiegrove.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > will_asher writes:
> >
> > > Man, I really like everything you've done in this patch except for these two:
> > >
> > But before you go changing what I did, why not give it a sincere try?
> > Perhaps you will learn to appreciate why I did it.
>
> I will give it a couple tries first before I change it, of course.
>
>
> Would it be better if I wait till I wait for a newer version of the patch before
> putting it in my semi-variant?
Yes, I think so. Many code fragments are embarassing to me.
They hopefully work correctly, but are not easily modifiable and extendable.
Of course, you could put it in now and do the work all over again when the
code is better. That's going to depend on how much free time you have.
I wanted to get it out so people can try things and eventually discuss what
they would like to see make it into official V in say 3.2.0 next summer.
I did not include my truly radical preferences for that reason.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 71
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Eddie Grove" <eddiegrove.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8763z6bis2.fsf@hotmail.com...
> "Magnate" <contact.me.RemoveThis@some.other.way> writes:
>
>> This is long overdue
>>
>> > * Treat NO_FUEL as permanent lite on status screen
>
> Just so you can see what has permanent light. Surely the Phial should
> count
> as having permanent light, shouldn't it?
Definitely. Sorry, I didn't fully understand the distinction between the
NFUEL and PLITE flags. NFUEL is for light sources, PLITE is not. This is an
obvious historic inconsistency which you have corrected, at least partially.
>> > * Point-based character generation equivalent to best available from
>> > autoroller
>>
>> Well done! Max total starting stats is 85, is that right? Point-based
>> clearly the way to go now.
>
> Not so simple. Non-mentioned start at 10.
>
> 2 @ 18
> or
> 3 @ 17
> or
> 4 @ 16
> or
> 6 @ 14
> Unfortunately not 5 @ 15. 4 @ 15 + 1 @ 14. Oh well.
>
> You can get 3 @ 17 with the autoroller if you are patient. That was my
> base.
> I don't particularly care what the choices are so long as tedium with the
> autoroller gives no advantage.
Well, what you have there is not at all like the autoroller. The autoroller
has only one limitation - the hard-coded limit on the total of all six
starting stats (which I think is 84 but cannot check now). Actually no, the
autoroller cannot give stats higher than 17 or lower than 8, so that's
another limitation.
So if you actually want to make point-based equivalent to the autoroller
(and I fully support this idea), you need to allow no 18s, 4x 17s and 2x 8s.
Not that I've ever had the patience to wait for the autoroller to roll four
17s, but it's theoretically possible, since the only check in the code is
the total of all six stats. Other combinations which total 84 include
4x 16, 2x 10
5x 15, 1x 9
6x 14
>> > * New command to restock a store for the cost of all items for sale
>> > * Apply autoinscriptions to items learned by testing
>> > * Show charges on aware wands and staves without identify
>> > * Failed destruction of artifact identifies it
>> > * Give free identify on non-jewelry that pseudos as average
>>
>> All helpful, though I'm not sure what the autoinscriptions are.
>
> Go to the object info screen, select an item, and use '{' to inscribe
> all such items when you pick them up. I autoinscribe the second spellbook
> @p2 @G2. I autoinscribe ?id with @r1.
> I autoinscribe robes !d!k when I squelch all but splendid body armor.
Yeah I know what autoinscriptions are (one of NPP's best innovations), but I
didn't understand your point about applying them to items learned by
testing. What's the difference between that, and applying them to items IDd
by magic?
>> > * Keep original names for randarts
>>
>> All this does is expose the weakness of the old power algorithm. Why not
>
> People occasionally post asking where something came from. It came in
> useful
> in my last game where I was able to discard a couple artifacts without *ID
> since from the base I could tell not worth using the precious scroll.
Ah, that's interesting, if a little gamey. The point about randarts is that
you're not supposed to be able to deduce their properties - if you know from
their name that they can't possibly be powerful enough to keep, that's a bit
pointless.
> More to the point, I want to show the activations without IDENT_MENTAL
> and that makes a little more sense if you know the name.
Sorry, you've lost me - what is IDENT_MENTAL?
> Basically, just because I like it.
That's fine. Did you try the alternative randart.c I linked for you? Not
sure if you can just drop it into your code - it depends whether you've done
anything fundamental to change tvals, svals or item property flags. It
shouldn't take too much effort to compile though, and I'd be interested in
your views. Both Jeff Greene and Andrew Doull liked it enough to use bits of
it for their own randart generators, in case you were wondering whether it
had any pedigree.
>> > * Pseudo of artifact identifies it
>>
>> But not *ID* I guess.
>
> *ID for standard, not for randarts. That's minimal gameplay change under
> the
> "show the rules" directive.
Fair enough. No different to the proposed "artifact memory" for standarts.
>> > Squelch
>> > * Allow squelching of unaware flavors
>>
>> Thereby making the game totally risk-free?
>
> You can squelch a ring of foobar. Not very smart if foobar is speed.
> You can squelch all mushrooms from the start [that was a request].
So you squelch by *flavour*, not by item type?? Wow. I know you wrote
"flavour" above, but I assumed you meant that you can squelch potions of
poison before IDing them. I don't quite understand the utility of being able
to squelch by flavour.
> If I wield a ring with a priest, it is cursed but not minus to strength
> con or
> speed, I squelch that flavor without knowing what it does.
Oh, I get it. Yeah, ok.
> This is useful if you know aggravation or teleportation, but technically
> have
> not learned the flavor. I hate having to take notes on "this flavor is
> that".
Then why not make them instantly IDd the moment you know what they do? I
thought that was your whole approach to reworking ID - as soon as the player
knows, the item is IDd.
>> > * Squelch oil like spikes
>>
>> ?? Don't understand this. One might need oil for lanterns, when one has
>> decided to squelch spikes.
>
> Same godawful exclusive menu interface. That's all I meant.
>
> I tried putting it into the lights quality menu but the code got too ucky.
> Besides, you can throw oil. Perhaps it deserves its own menu.
Oh ok. Will have to actually look at your menus to see this.
CC >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Oct 17, 2007
Posts: 80
|
(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
"Magnate" <contact.me RemoveThis @some.other.way> writes:
> >> > * Point-based character generation equivalent to best available from
> >> > autoroller
> >>
> >> Well done! Max total starting stats is 85, is that right? Point-based
> >> clearly the way to go now.
> >
> > Not so simple. Non-mentioned start at 10.
> >
> > 2 @ 18
> > or
> > 3 @ 17
> > or
> > 4 @ 16
> > or
> > 6 @ 14
> > Unfortunately not 5 @ 15. 4 @ 15 + 1 @ 14. Oh well.
> >
> > You can get 3 @ 17 with the autoroller if you are patient. That was my
> > base.
> > I don't particularly care what the choices are so long as tedium with the
> > autoroller gives no advantage.
>
> Well, what you have there is not at all like the autoroller. The autoroller
> has only one limitation - the hard-coded limit on the total of all six
> starting stats (which I think is 84 but cannot check now). Actually no, the
> autoroller cannot give stats higher than 17 or lower than 8, so that's
> another limitation.
What I did is not perfect, but is an excellent approximation. The old
point-based allowed 18's, at a terrible price. I kept that, but made the
price a smidgeon less. I don't really care, but I was trying to combine both.
I have never seen even a 14 along with 3 17's from the autoroller. Maybe
never a 13. I will take you at your word, and then ignore you. I like what I
did. It keeps the flavor of old point-based at an equivalent power level to
what I have experienced from the auto-roller.
I don't mind being overruled, if that's what it takes for Andrew to dump the
autoroller, but I feel that I did a good job of merging the two approaches.
> 4x 16, 2x 10
> 5x 15, 1x 9
> 6x 14
Up to 16's my code allows for 84 total stat points, in any way, except that
point-based does not allow 9's currently, so 4x 15, 1x 14, 1x 10.
> Yeah I know what autoinscriptions are (one of NPP's best innovations), but I
> didn't understand your point about applying them to items learned by
> testing. What's the difference between that, and applying them to items IDd
> by magic?
Say you use an unaware rod of trap location, and thus learn awareness. Then
it ought to be autoinscribed. Dropping it and then picking it back up to get
the inscription is clunky.
> >> > * Keep original names for randarts
> >>
> >> All this does is expose the weakness of the old power algorithm. Why not
> >
> > People occasionally post asking where something came from. It came in
> > useful
> > in my last game where I was able to discard a couple artifacts without *ID
> > since from the base I could tell not worth using the precious scroll.
>
> Ah, that's interesting, if a little gamey. The point about randarts is that
> you're not supposed to be able to deduce their properties - if you know from
> their name that they can't possibly be powerful enough to keep, that's a bit
> pointless.>
If you note the activations, you already get a substantial proportion. I
think the artifact in question was a paur* or *thanc, so this time I got no
new info. I had more reasons not worth arguing over.
> > More to the point, I want to show the activations without IDENT_MENTAL
> > and that makes a little more sense if you know the name.
>
> Sorry, you've lost me - what is IDENT_MENTAL?
That's a flag used in the source, basically means *ID.
> That's fine. Did you try the alternative randart.c I linked for you? Not
I usually play NPP 0.4.1 for randarts. Is it much different?
In any case, I am suggesting changes to V, and restricting myself to things I
have not seen elsewhere or can't stand to play without. Andrew is perfectly
capable of getting your version of randart.c without my help.
> > This is useful if you know aggravation or teleportation, but technically
> > have
> > not learned the flavor. I hate having to take notes on "this flavor is
> > that".
>
> Then why not make them instantly IDd the moment you know what they do? I
> thought that was your whole approach to reworking ID - as soon as the player
> knows, the item is IDd.
That is complicated and involves redoing an enormous amount of stuff. I think
it is too radical to propose incorporating to V the way I implemented it.
I do include auto-id on things like a ring of con when you wield it.
Keeping track of when you take less damage from a fire attack is different.
The way I did things when I was considering doing a variant, once you learn a
property, you recognize it on future items, so if you figure out a sword of
flame you immediately [perhaps modulo pseudo-id] recognize the next mace of
flame, and that randart axe might be Axe(2d8)(+9,+9) {flamebrand ? ?} to show
three properties one of which is flame and 2 that you do not know.
Eddie >> Stay informed about: ANNOUNCE Eddie's patch V3.0.9e |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
| Related Topics: | V angband my patch ideas - Ranger/Paladin balance = When you look at what the Ranger gets in terms of mage spells vs what a Paladin gets. Rangers get more utility spells than a mage, but lose some of the higher attack spells but make up for it in fighting and bows. A Paladin get...
[vanilla] best race for a Ranger? - I have beaten the game twice already, with a Gnome Mage and a Dwarf Priest. I am now working on an Dunadan Warrior (around dlevel 55 or so), and I think after this I will try a Ranger. But I don't know which Race to choose for my Ranger, what are the..
Poll: How much time do you use fo ra win. - Hi all. In "Collected Vanilla wish list" thread I have discussed with Pete and Cliff and then a question raised: How many hours do you usually need for winning the game. Not turns, hours. Real Time. Just playing time, don't count lunchtime....
[Z] arrows of wounding? - I picked up some of these -- arrows of wounding, 3d4, (+1,+3), which struck me as pretty pitiful. Do they have some damage multiplier I know not wot, or are they basically just arrows, +1 to hit, +3 to dam? And if so, what does "of wounding"...
When you really need to kill a lot of monsters... - I have an exception to Cliff's rule of not clearing pits. My current gear, class is NPP rogue. Swap: BoC *Slay Demon*, Acid/Fire brand halberd. Sling of Buckland Barahir(+1) RoSpeed(+8) Elessar [ Heal activation ] Thalkettoth Colannon Anarrion.. |
|
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Profile
Private Messages
Log in
