ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4..

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclassics.DeleteThis@nospamacradeunits.net> wrote:
> Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that
> was posted on the game developer magazine website.

Analyst is the only job I know of where you are literally paid to pull
stuff out of your ass, present it as "fact" and face zero repercussions
when proven wrong or inaccurate (which is most of the time.)



--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

Use your head, not the other's


"ThatsClassic" <cagclassics.DeleteThis@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote in message
news:oa6dnfyJ2fmqyi7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@adelphia.com...
> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled
> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he
> believes difficulties porting the game to the PlayStation 3 are to blame
> and that the company's new green light policy appears to be a failure.
>
> "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had
> difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and
> failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until
> recently."
>
> "We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to
> Sony that it would not favor competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox
> 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version," he continued,
> "and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the
> Xbox 360 version."
>
> The delay has caused somewhat of a valuation quandary for Pachter, as he
> adds "we are unprepared to predict what Take-Two management can truly
> deliver until we see some positive results."
>
> "We think that new management is doing many things right," he says, "but
> believe that some structural obstacles remain. The company has begun an
> initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given
> the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under
> development appears to be a failure."
>
> Pachter concludes, "Until we see evidence of better controls over work in
> process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident
> that the company will gain market share in future years."
>
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

"Timbo" <timmy235.DeleteThis@email.com> wrote in message
news:xXLsi.30$MT3.21@trnddc05...
> Use your head, not the other's
>

Confucius?
>
> "ThatsClassic" <cagclassics.DeleteThis@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote in message
> news:oa6dnfyJ2fmqyi7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled
>> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he
>> believes difficulties porting the game to the PlayStation 3 are to blame
>> and that the company's new green light policy appears to be a failure.
>>
>> "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had
>> difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and
>> failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until
>> recently."
>>
>> "We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to
>> Sony that it would not favor competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox
>> 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version," he continued,
>> "and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of
>> the Xbox 360 version."
>>
>> The delay has caused somewhat of a valuation quandary for Pachter, as he
>> adds "we are unprepared to predict what Take-Two management can truly
>> deliver until we see some positive results."
>>
>> "We think that new management is doing many things right," he says, "but
>> believe that some structural obstacles remain. The company has begun an
>> initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given
>> the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under
>> development appears to be a failure."
>>
>> Pachter concludes, "Until we see evidence of better controls over work in
>> process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident
>> that the company will gain market share in future years."
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

On Aug 3, 1:22 pm, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass....DeleteThis@NOSPAMacradeunits.net>
wrote:
> Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter says Take-Two management has "stumbled
> badly for the first time" with the delay of GTA IV, and said that he
> believes difficulties porting the game to the PlayStation 3 are to blame and
> that the company's new green light policy appears to be a failure.
>
> "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had
> difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and
> failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until
> recently."
>
> "We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to
> Sony that it would not favor competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360
> version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version," he continued, "and
> believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox
> 360 version."
>
> The delay has caused somewhat of a valuation quandary for Pachter, as he
> adds "we are unprepared to predict what Take-Two management can truly
> deliver until we see some positive results."
>
> "We think that new management is doing many things right," he says, "but
> believe that some structural obstacles remain. The company has begun an
> initiative to improve the green light process for new projects, but given
> the delays of Manhunt and GTA, its process for monitoring projects under
> development appears to be a failure."
>
> Pachter concludes, "Until we see evidence of better controls over work in
> process and greater diligence in project selection, we are not confident
> that the company will gain market share in future years."

I think they key word here is 'porting', i.e. they had a code done for
Xbox360 and I guess they thought it'd be an easy thing to port it to
the PS3... Same thing probably would have happened the other way
around. The truth is, we're looking at the first generations of games
for the PS3, where companies haven't created a solid base of middle-
ware that alleviates just this same problem.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

On Aug 3, 10:22 am, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass... RemoveThis @NOSPAMacradeunits.net>
wrote:

> "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had
> difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and
> failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until
> recently."

Problem is, Pachter's an idiot:

http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/08/01/pachter-predicts-hd-wii/

"He sees the falling costs of graphics processors and rising public
demand for high definition possibly leading Nintendo to release a Wii
that can output in HD in "two to three years."

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6441&Itemid=59

""We believe that there are presently 2 - 3 million 60GB PS3s produced
and not yet sold, and expect the entire supply to be diverted to the
US to honor the new lower price point."

- Jordan
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

"ThatsClassic" <cagclassics.RemoveThis@NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote in message
news:oa6dnfyJ2fmqyi7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@adelphia.com...

For everyone of these articles there is one of these

GTA IV delayed to make MS give in?

As most have already heard, GTA IV has been delayed till Q2 2008.
Speculation is running all over the internet as to the exact reason for this
delay. As far as gamers knew, everything was fine at E3 and on track for a
big October launch.

As reported earlier this week, XF had learned about certain future titles
requiring the 360 HDD for data caching, but hadn't received any specifics on
which games and when this would happen. Yesterday, when XF got word of GTA
IV being delayed, we had to call our source. Apparently Rockstar wants GTA
IV to give a seamless experience with load times limited as much as possible
and void of loading whenever possible. This requires a HDD according to our
source.

MS, while allowing certain titles (MMOs & soccer managers) to use the HDD
already and reportedly allowing titles to do it in the future, did not want
to segregate the 360 core users this early. Everything our source said made
sense when we looked at what Shane Kim said in a recent interview with
GamePro.com:
There was a rumor that Grand Theft Auto IV is not going to be compatible
with the Core system because the game may require a hard drive. Is
incompatibility with the Core model something Microsoft can't allow, or are
you flexible on issues like this?

SK: No, we want to support all of the Xbox 360s, otherwise it becomes very
confusing. We really want to avoid that as much as possible.

So what would you say if Rockstar Games demanded you have a hard drive if
you want to play GTAIV on the Xbox 360?

SK: We get to make the call on who gets published on our
platform...[inaudible] we'd push back on any publisher saying things like
that.

If everything we're being told is true, it's a good and bad thing. It
means developers really do want to use the 360 to it's full potential and
make better games for you and I. It also means MS may very well limit what
360 owners get to play because they want to drag their feet on the HDD
announcement till the Cores are completely off the shelves. Hopefully,
someone will get this fixed soon so we can get back to just playing games.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

On Aug 3, 2:59 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac... DeleteThis @shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
> In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass... DeleteThis @nospamacradeunits.net> wrote:
>
> > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that
> > was posted on the game developer magazine website.
>
> Analyst is the only job I know of where you are literally paid to pull
> stuff out of your ass, present it as "fact" and face zero repercussions
> when proven wrong or inaccurate (which is most of the time.)
>
> --
> It's not broken. It's...advanced.

Well, the game was delayed for a reason. I appreciated the link. There
are been quite a few comments from developers alluring to and even
outright stating the PS3 is a much more difficult system to program
for than the XBox 360. Those comments generally are criticism of
Sony's supplied API's (a programming library the vendor gives to third-
party developers, used to create games).

Analyst who just pull stuff out of their ass generally don't last very
long. I have friends who are Business Analyst who work very hard at
what they do so I take a bit of offense to your comment. Every time
they make a statement on the record, they put their ass on the line. I
don't know anything about this analyst and the original poster did not
provide a link to even back their claim (please do), but if this is
true it is important to note and I imagine it's rooted in some factual
data about problems Rockstar is encountering.

I suspect Rockstar realizes how that up to this point the PS3
screenshots of cross platform titles are being scruntinized for being
less detailed than their XBox 360 counterparts and Rockstar, being in
bed with Sony all these years (cheap shot, deal with it) knows that
Sony's PlayStation brand has helped them build their little empire.
They are showing some respect and making sure the game looks as good
on PS3, which again is supposedly a rather difficult task, because of
Sony's first gen API's. It's possible they are working directly with
Sony to make the PS3 version stand out above the XBox 360 version...
If they can do that, Kudos.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

On Aug 3, 9:25 pm, "boodybandit" <allaboutga... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> "ThatsClassic" <cagclass... DeleteThis @NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote in message
>
> news:oa6dnfyJ2fmqyi7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>
> For everyone of these articles there is one of these
>
> GTA IV delayed to make MS give in?
>
> As most have already heard, GTA IV has been delayed till Q2 2008.
> Speculation is running all over the internet as to the exact reason for this
> delay. As far as gamers knew, everything was fine at E3 and on track for a
> big October launch.
>
> As reported earlier this week, XF had learned about certain future titles
> requiring the 360 HDD for data caching, but hadn't received any specifics on
> which games and when this would happen. Yesterday, when XF got word of GTA
> IV being delayed, we had to call our source. Apparently Rockstar wants GTA
> IV to give a seamless experience with load times limited as much as possible
> and void of loading whenever possible. This requires a HDD according to our
> source.
>
> MS, while allowing certain titles (MMOs & soccer managers) to use the HDD
> already and reportedly allowing titles to do it in the future, did not want
> to segregate the 360 core users this early. Everything our source said made
> sense when we looked at what Shane Kim said in a recent interview with
> GamePro.com:
> There was a rumor that Grand Theft Auto IV is not going to be compatible
> with the Core system because the game may require a hard drive. Is
> incompatibility with the Core model something Microsoft can't allow, or are
> you flexible on issues like this?
>
> SK: No, we want to support all of the Xbox 360s, otherwise it becomes very
> confusing. We really want to avoid that as much as possible.
>
> So what would you say if Rockstar Games demanded you have a hard drive if
> you want to play GTAIV on the Xbox 360?
>
> SK: We get to make the call on who gets published on our
> platform...[inaudible] we'd push back on any publisher saying things like
> that.
>
> If everything we're being told is true, it's a good and bad thing. It
> means developers really do want to use the 360 to it's full potential and
> make better games for you and I. It also means MS may very well limit what
> 360 owners get to play because they want to drag their feet on the HDD
> announcement till the Cores are completely off the shelves. Hopefully,
> someone will get this fixed soon so we can get back to just playing games.

Well written post... This sounds as legit as any other speculation....
Does anyone really think the relationship between Microsoft and
Rockstar is a healthy one? It seems to be more like Rockstar the the
expensive whore in the situation, only because they seem to dislike
Microsoft so much yet when the check book comes out.. you get the
idea. Does anyone else sense this?

Even if that's not the case and Microsoft is behind this delay, it's
example of how they cleverly treat every move with their competition
like a chess game. With Halo 3 and other titles, it would seem the PS3
stands a bit more to loose with the GTA IV not being available in
2007. Just because PS3 needs all the good games it can get and GTA IV
is a game everyone is looking forward to, it's a game that would move
would be PS2 owners to PS3, but by buying more time (this is all
theoretical of course, assuming it is Microsoft causing the delay). by
buying more time, Microsoft gets to put Halo 3 out there, they get to
position their new prices, they get to dangle a few more carrots and
those PS2 owners are going to look and see that down the road they can
get a GTA IV for the 360.

If this where true, would it help them... of course it would.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

RMZ wrote:
>
> On Aug 3, 2:59 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac... RemoveThis @shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
> > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic <cagclass... RemoveThis @nospamacradeunits.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report that
> > > was posted on the game developer magazine website.
> >
> > Analyst is the only job I know of where you are literally paid to pull
> > stuff out of your ass, present it as "fact" and face zero repercussions
> > when proven wrong or inaccurate (which is most of the time.)
> >
> > --
> > It's not broken. It's...advanced.
>
> Well, the game was delayed for a reason. I appreciated the link. There
> are been quite a few comments from developers alluring to and even
> outright stating the PS3 is a much more difficult system to program
> for than the XBox 360.

the same old bollocks from you as usual.

--
Paul (We won't die of devotion)
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

"RMZ" <Jeremy.Deats DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1186202828.352049.275490@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 3, 9:25 pm, "boodybandit" <allaboutga... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>> "ThatsClassic" <cagclass... DeleteThis @NOSPAMacradeunits.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:oa6dnfyJ2fmqyi7bnZ2dnUVZ_rCtnZ2d@adelphia.com...
>>
>> For everyone of these articles there is one of these
>>
>> GTA IV delayed to make MS give in?
>>
>> As most have already heard, GTA IV has been delayed till Q2 2008.
>> Speculation is running all over the internet as to the exact reason for
>> this
>> delay. As far as gamers knew, everything was fine at E3 and on track for
>> a
>> big October launch.
>>
>> As reported earlier this week, XF had learned about certain future titles
>> requiring the 360 HDD for data caching, but hadn't received any specifics
>> on
>> which games and when this would happen. Yesterday, when XF got word of
>> GTA
>> IV being delayed, we had to call our source. Apparently Rockstar wants
>> GTA
>> IV to give a seamless experience with load times limited as much as
>> possible
>> and void of loading whenever possible. This requires a HDD according to
>> our
>> source.
>>
>> MS, while allowing certain titles (MMOs & soccer managers) to use the HDD
>> already and reportedly allowing titles to do it in the future, did not
>> want
>> to segregate the 360 core users this early. Everything our source said
>> made
>> sense when we looked at what Shane Kim said in a recent interview with
>> GamePro.com:
>> There was a rumor that Grand Theft Auto IV is not going to be compatible
>> with the Core system because the game may require a hard drive. Is
>> incompatibility with the Core model something Microsoft can't allow, or
>> are
>> you flexible on issues like this?
>>
>> SK: No, we want to support all of the Xbox 360s, otherwise it becomes
>> very
>> confusing. We really want to avoid that as much as possible.
>>
>> So what would you say if Rockstar Games demanded you have a hard drive if
>> you want to play GTAIV on the Xbox 360?
>>
>> SK: We get to make the call on who gets published on our
>> platform...[inaudible] we'd push back on any publisher saying things like
>> that.
>>
>> If everything we're being told is true, it's a good and bad thing. It
>> means developers really do want to use the 360 to it's full potential and
>> make better games for you and I. It also means MS may very well limit
>> what
>> 360 owners get to play because they want to drag their feet on the HDD
>> announcement till the Cores are completely off the shelves. Hopefully,
>> someone will get this fixed soon so we can get back to just playing
>> games.
>
> Well written post... This sounds as legit as any other speculation....
> Does anyone really think the relationship between Microsoft and
> Rockstar is a healthy one? It seems to be more like Rockstar the the
> expensive whore in the situation, only because they seem to dislike
> Microsoft so much yet when the check book comes out.. you get the
> idea. Does anyone else sense this?
>

Absolutely. With the money Rockstar has lost due to Hot Coffee and issues
like that, it would only make sense that they would think financially over
anything else.

> Even if that's not the case and Microsoft is behind this delay, it's
> example of how they cleverly treat every move with their competition
> like a chess game. With Halo 3 and other titles, it would seem the PS3
> stands a bit more to loose with the GTA IV not being available in
> 2007. Just because PS3 needs all the good games it can get and GTA IV
> is a game everyone is looking forward to, it's a game that would move
> would be PS2 owners to PS3, but by buying more time (this is all
> theoretical of course, assuming it is Microsoft causing the delay). by
> buying more time, Microsoft gets to put Halo 3 out there, they get to
> position their new prices, they get to dangle a few more carrots and
> those PS2 owners are going to look and see that down the road they can
> get a GTA IV for the 360.
>
> If this where true, would it help them... of course it would.
>
>

I don't think so. The PS3 isn't starved for good games, it is starved for
good exclusives. No one is going to want to pay for something that they can
play for cheaper and have the same experience on another console. I think
it hurts both consoles equally until Sony gets the whole sales momentum
going. Right now, they are in the budding stage of really picking up so
their installed base isn't really big enough for this to have a tremendous
effect. As I said before, GTAIV is not a system seller the way the 1st 2
games were. It is more a game that an overwhelming majority of people were
going to pick up who already had the system. People buy systems for games
they can't play on other systems.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

"Jordan" <lundj.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1186197686.910883.85500@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 3, 10:22 am, "ThatsClassic" <cagclass....RemoveThis@NOSPAMacradeunits.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "We think it is likely," said Pachter, "that the Rockstar team had
>> difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and
>> failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until
>> recently."
>
> Problem is, Pachter's an idiot:
>
> http://www.nintendowiifanboy.com/2007/08/01/pachter-predicts-hd-wii/
>
> "He sees the falling costs of graphics processors and rising public
> demand for high definition possibly leading Nintendo to release a Wii
> that can output in HD in "two to three years."
>
> http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6441&Itemid=59
>
> ""We believe that there are presently 2 - 3 million 60GB PS3s produced
> and not yet sold, and expect the entire supply to be diverted to the
> US to honor the new lower price point."
>
> - Jordan
>
>
>

LOL. Well at least we know that would ensure us of 60GB PS3s for the
forseeable future.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:46B40D1B.BFFB42F5@blueyonder.co.uk...
> RMZ wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2:59 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac... DeleteThis @shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>> > In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 ThatsClassic
>> > <cagclass... DeleteThis @nospamacradeunits.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Why are you calling people dumb fanboys for posting an analyst report
>> > > that
>> > > was posted on the game developer magazine website.
>> >
>> > Analyst is the only job I know of where you are literally paid to pull
>> > stuff out of your ass, present it as "fact" and face zero repercussions
>> > when proven wrong or inaccurate (which is most of the time.)
>> >
>> > --
>> > It's not broken. It's...advanced.
>>
>> Well, the game was delayed for a reason. I appreciated the link. There
>> are been quite a few comments from developers alluring to and even
>> outright stating the PS3 is a much more difficult system to program
>> for than the XBox 360.
>
> the same old bollocks from you as usual.
>

I love how the subject leads the reader to believe there was more than one
analyst saying this.

From what Android was saying, before the game was even delayed, was that
what he saw of the xbox version needed ALOT of work. So i doubt all the
fault can possibly fall on the PS3 version if we've never even SEEN the PS3
version. For all we know maybe GTA IV is just too ambitious to be done right
on the 360 hardware. Hey, that answer is just as valid as placing blame
squarely on the PS3.
> --
> Paul (We won't die of devotion)
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4.. 

> 5) Ooh, a Yankee insult. Probably coming from an idiot who has never
> played
> a sport in his life. Do you even watch baseball? Can you name 15 Major
> League stadiums without going on Google. If you want to turn this into a
> baseball debate, we can take it to whatever newsgroup supports your team,
> if they even have one.

I quit watching baseball after those pansies went on strike ages ago. It
was a real wake-up call.

Anyone who stands around in a grassy field, wearing tight pants, chewing
tobacco, and wearing a glove on one hand is not playing a sport. And needing
steroids to do all that just degrades the "sport" further.

Keep your pathetic arguements off AGGTA please. This forum has always held
to higher standards than what you are bringing here.
 >> Stay informed about: ANALYSTS BELIEVE TROUBLE PORTING TO PS3 THE CAUSE FOR GTA4..