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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:12 pm
Post subject: The AI
Archived from groups: alt>games>vgaplanets4 (more info?)
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How can I tell if someone has dropped out and is being played by the AI?
Does their Reg code change or something?
I would quite like a message from Host about this. "Emperor X has been
overthrown and replaced by a coalition of AI equipped domestic
appliances. This empire is now declared forbidden space. All alliances
are off. Any infringement of our territory will be met with force.
Freedom for toasters and vacuum cleaners! Down with the human
oppressors!" Or similar.
---
Simple improvement suggestions:
Why not retain any alliances it inherits.
Aggressiveness could be linked to position. If in a corner, fewer
borders --> safer to attack a neighbour.
It's very keen on pods, so the Pod Kicker A Exotic Tech would be useful.
The first Shield bonus would be good too.
Does it sweep mines? Turning on certain devices like mine sweepers as a
default would be a good idea.
The AI is heavily dependant on pods. So give it improved pod speed -
it's a different "race". And make happiness irrelevant, it's now turned
all the population into cyborgs. Doing this could give it a bit of an
edge as it is terribly predictable.
Does the AI lay minefields yet? I have not seen it do so. It made
capturing their life pods too easy - in effect I was able to hover near
its homeworld and "farm" it for prisoners. I did not understand why it
did not attack me.
Originally, the AI, which cuts in after 10 unplayed turns, wasn't immune
to the effect that: an unplayed empire's population begins decaying
after 10 turns, and its ships begin accumulating damage. Is this fixed?
--
KlingonKommand |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:12 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 15, 9:12 am, KlingonKommand <P....RemoveThis@nurk.fnord> wrote:
> How can I tell if someone has dropped out and is being played by the AI?
> Does their Reg code change or something?
>
> I would quite like a message from Host about this. "Emperor X has been
> overthrown and replaced by a coalition of AI equipped domestic
> appliances. This empire is now declared forbidden space. All alliances
> are off. Any infringement of our territory will be met with force.
> Freedom for toasters and vacuum cleaners! Down with the human
> oppressors!" Or similar.
>
> ---
>
> Simple improvement suggestions:
>
> Why not retain any alliances it inherits.
>
> Aggressiveness could be linked to position. If in a corner, fewer
> borders --> safer to attack a neighbour.
>
> It's very keen on pods, so the Pod Kicker A Exotic Tech would be useful.
> The first Shield bonus would be good too.
>
> Does it sweep mines? Turning on certain devices like mine sweepers as a
> default would be a good idea.
>
> The AI is heavily dependant on pods. So give it improved pod speed -
> it's a different "race". And make happiness irrelevant, it's now turned
> all the population into cyborgs. Doing this could give it a bit of an
> edge as it is terribly predictable.
>
> Does the AI lay minefields yet? I have not seen it do so. It made
> capturing their life pods too easy - in effect I was able to hover near
> its homeworld and "farm" it for prisoners. I did not understand why it
> did not attack me.
>
> Originally, the AI, which cuts in after 10 unplayed turns, wasn't immune
> to the effect that: an unplayed empire's population begins decaying
> after 10 turns, and its ships begin accumulating damage. Is this fixed?
> --
> KlingonKommand
the AI is more like AS (artificial stupidity) right now. i would hope
that an improved AI would not be bothered with until the game goes
gold.
you can tell when the ai is being played, it will not have a
registration code. ai only lays minefields around homeworld that im
aware of. it does not automaticaly cut in for players that miss thier
turn. its usually turned on or its not.if the AI is turned on then
there is no decay. decay is related to unplayed turns.... if the AI is
on there is no unplayed turn.
Proto |
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>i would hope
>that an improved AI would not be bothered with until the game goes
>gold.
I'm looking for small changes (ie 5 lines of code) which could make a
big difference. I have seen a number of messages from newbies or people
who like to play alone, it would be good if it was a better player.
Thus, I thought I would start a debate on it here. We haven't discussed
its strategies for a long time, not since it was first introduced
really.
One idea I had but forgot to mention was, maybe the AI should lterally
change the race of the players it takes over. Because it does not
understand hyperdrives etc yet - I think it is basically "the Feds". If
the race has been taken over by a robotic toaster alliance, they could
have particular attributes and mould their strategies around those.
Rather than trying to write an AI which has to play Crystals, EE and
Solarians and makes a bad job of them all.
>you can tell when the ai is being played, it will not have a
>registration code. ai only lays minefields around homeworld that im
>aware of. it does not automaticaly cut in for players that miss thier
>turn. its usually turned on or its not.if the AI is turned on then
>there is no decay. decay is related to unplayed turns.... if the AI is
>on there is no unplayed turn.
Thanks!
--
KlingonKommand >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 104
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:19 am
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 16, 10:55 am, KlingonKommand <P....DeleteThis@nurk.fnord> wrote:
> >i would hope
> >that an improved AI would not be bothered with until the game goes
> >gold.
>
> I'm looking for small changes (ie 5 lines of code) which could make a
> big difference. I have seen a number of messages from newbies or people
> who like to play alone, it would be good if it was a better player.
> Thus, I thought I would start a debate on it here. We haven't discussed
> its strategies for a long time, not since it was first introduced
> really.
>
> One idea I had but forgot to mention was, maybe the AI should lterally
> change the race of the players it takes over. Because it does not
> understand hyperdrives etc yet - I think it is basically "the Feds". If
> the race has been taken over by a robotic toaster alliance, they could
> have particular attributes and mould their strategies around those.
> Rather than trying to write an AI which has to play Crystals, EE and
> Solarians and makes a bad job of them all.
>
> >you can tell when the ai is being played, it will not have a
> >registration code. ai only lays minefields around homeworld that im
> >aware of. it does not automaticaly cut in for players that miss thier
> >turn. its usually turned on or its not.if the AI is turned on then
> >there is no decay. decay is related to unplayed turns.... if the AI is
> >on there is no unplayed turn.
>
> Thanks!
> --
> KlingonKommand
possibly all devices on for AI would add some flavor for those that
play at home, cloak, minefield sweeper and hyper always on as well.
i dont think that would be too hard to implement, and would increase
movement of the AI when playing hyperraces.
Proto >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 64
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I don't think a "generic" AI is really possible; or rather there are
too many races with quirks that greatly reduce the effectiveness of a
generic AI.
Rather than initially trying for an AI to play every race, it should
be developed a piece at a time.
Start with just the Feds, as their play is fairly straightforward and
probably the easiest to modify for other races.
Changing the race of an AI is an interesting idea. It would
definately place the AI as a permenant replacement rather than a
temporary substitute though. >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:31 am
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Amaranthine writes
>Changing the race of an AI is an interesting idea. It would
>definately place the AI as a permenant replacement rather than a
>temporary substitute though.
I once had to play a race that had been played for 2 turns by the AI. It
basically wrecked the empire in that time. I don't think the AI is
suitable as a "temporary holiday substitute" at present. Better to leave
the race unplayed.
--
KlingonKommand >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: May 16, 2007
Posts: 89
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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It seems as if every time I check things
> have moved deeper into the void feeling more like a secret cult and less
> like a releasable game.
> IMHO of course
>
> Gandalf Parker
The secret cult: You have a good point there.  But it has always
been like that. I joined the cult when Planets3 came around and did my
first trials with the AI player. It was fun and all until about turn
10 when all the AI's ships ran out of fuel in midspace. Local friends
took a look at the graphics, listened to my confused talk on races and
rules and unisono shook their heads. If I hadn't jumped into games on
the internet it would have stopped there.
Drewhead has separate games for beginners, so there's no need to fear
being trashed by expert players. The learning curve is steep, but the
rewards are great, too.
Phaidros >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 267
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:28 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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protomatter <protomatter RemoveThis @buckeye-express.com> contributed wisdom to
news:99812d7a-1a17-4cc0-84f2-ec1cf322b453@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
> the AI is more like AS (artificial stupidity) right now. i would hope
> that an improved AI would not be bothered with until the game goes
> gold.
My personal opinion is that the lack of AI is forcing a downhill spiral
toward going gold.
New people entering this forum are beset with more confusing options than
any other game I know. And the offsetting imagery of a large battle-
hardened expert player base suggesting that they jump right in to
multiplayer games in order to learn even the simplest parts of the game
does not seem to be effective.
It doesnt take long to get the impression that learning all of the uses
of the 3-letter codes during multiplayer is not the best way to figure
out IF you will like the game at all.
Ive "owned" the game since 2001 and Im still not convinced to register my
serial or purchase more copies for all of the machines in the house as I
have done with many many MANY games since then. Occassionally I check to
see if the tutorials and AI are to the point that my A.D.D. self can get
even a few turns into a game. It seems as if every time I check things
have moved deeper into the void feeling more like a secret cult and less
like a releasable game.
IMHO of course
Gandalf Parker >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: May 15, 2007
Posts: 4
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:20 am
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> It doesnt take long to get the impression that learning all of the uses
> of the 3-letter codes during multiplayer is not the best way to figure
> out IF you will like the game at all.
Very good point. I am one of those that love complicated games - but
it took me forever to convince my friends and brothers of this one
(now they are all just as addicted as I am). I strongly believe that
the number of players could be a multitude of what it is now if we
would make it easier to overcome that first resistance - after a while
we don't have to worry about them anymore. They will get sucked in
like most of us have... *g*
How do I try out new games?
1) Something catches my eye or imagination.
2) I download the game and install it.
3) I open it up and start playing pretty much right away.
4) If I like what I see - or even what I imagine must be there - I
start reading manuals and get deeper into it. If there is no
connection to the game within a few minutes/hours I delete it again.
Therefore, I agree with Gandalf that a decent AI would do wonders for
the game. You can just download it in the middle of the night, start a
game right there and get your ... whipped! And there is nothing better
to feel the potential of a game than being trashed by the AI with
parts of the game that you didn't even imagine existed...
Therefore I am still in favor of opening a dll interface for users
like us to be able to write a decent AI. And be it only for one race
(Feds).
Claudius >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 267
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Amaranthine <Michael.Richardson.2002.DeleteThis@gmail.com> contributed wisdom to
news:462b3ace-0ffa-4cb3-af0f-7ddaf6856338@z38g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
> The easiest way to learn the game is to play the game; even if the
> first several games you play are simply SIM-Planets, with no other
> players or AI (and that is how I usually try out a new race, just to
> get a feel for how their economy needs to be set up).
>
> New games on Drewheads (and others) that are meant for newer players
> pop up quite often.
Even if what you said is true, which I dont quite go with, it doesnt
matter. There are many people who simply will not do that. Many of the
people here are exceoptional in their willingness to tackle this game. Or
they started with VGAP3 and the AI, or were brought into the game by
someone else who was willing to show them the ropes.
There are few people in my opinion who are willing to jump into a
multiplayer game before they can even get a feel for it. Since this game
creates a fairly rare occurance of having a real feel for the number of
players I think we should be able to realize this. Surely there is a huge
difference between the number of downloads and the number of people in
the forums/games.
Dominions 3 is an equally difficult game to get proficient at. It can
takea year before feeling like you are ready for a multiplayer game. But
the tutorial, and manual, and AI make that possible IMHO.
Gandalf Parker >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 267
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Phaidros <tiaboli DeleteThis @hotmail.com> contributed wisdom to news:76994fe6-f66a-
4d04-9366-ee4087ff5667 DeleteThis @i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> I joined the cult when Planets3 came around and did my
> first trials with the AI player. It was fun and all until about turn
> 10 when all the AI's ships ran out of fuel in midspace.
Even that would be something. If I remember right, the AI was much easier
to include in a starter game in VGAP3. Plus the side scripting later
improved the AI. >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Apr 26, 2007
Posts: 64
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:42 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 25, 12:59 pm, KlingonKommand <P... DeleteThis @nurk.fnord> wrote:
> Amaranthine's new layout looks much more logical to me (except, I'd
> change "mail" - which implies email to me - to "messages" - implying
> in-game ones)
>
> >http://amaranthine1.2ya.com/Alternate%20Client%20Set-up1.JPG
My choice of mail over message was simply because of word length.
"Message" is a better description, "Mail" fits better graphically.
Would "Comm" be a useful description, while maintaining a shorter
length?
> A while ago I tried to come up with a more vertical arrangement for
> Space Command. You've given me some fresh ideas. How about this to start
> off with. Insert www, change $ to dots...
>
> furfur$demon$co$uk/geop/temp$gif
>
> The main problem with Space Command to me, on a laptop with a mere 1280
> x 800 pixels, is that it ALWAYS obscures part of what I want to look at.
It would take a bit of readjustment (as would shuffling the buttons),
but I think both of these would end up with the Client being more user
friendly and intuitive. >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Oct 06, 2005
Posts: 267
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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clausimu <clausimu RemoveThis @web.de> contributed wisdom to news:7bdb2c00-6f0f-4451-
b5de-9e103c45f150 RemoveThis @e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> Therefore I am still in favor of opening a dll interface for users
> like us to be able to write a decent AI. And be it only for one race
> (Feds).
Ive always been a big supporter of developers opening the door in parts of
the game that they do not feel like tackling. Graphics, sounds, AI, help
files, new nations, support sites, etc. There is nothing wrong with the
developers doing the things they want to do but if something stays on the
"back burner" for years then cut it loose and let the beta players take a
stab at it.
Improving the AI would also open the door to the next step. Some true
newbie who happens to be a good writer to take notes as they learn the
game. Then do a tutorial or even a full manual.
Gandalf Parker >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 143
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:45 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I think more option to the display of windows is always good.
I would like to keep the current display, but add an option to make it
vertical.
I wood like to have the button in a more logical way, like Amaranthine
did, I agree, mail should be message.
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9123/screendisplayvs4.jpg
I use a 20'' LCD screen with the native 1680 X 1050, before that I was
using a 19'' CRT with 1600 X 1200.
Anything lower resolution I can not see enough of the map.
I would like the top button to be a bit more spaced horizontal since
we have a lot of wasted space.
I would like the Space command, the base, ship, note window to be a
default Ms window, and be able to resize it, I would reduce the size
of all windows.
Lord Lancelot >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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External
Since: May 29, 2004
Posts: 447
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: The AI [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Amaranthine's new layout looks much more logical to me (except, I'd
change "mail" - which implies email to me - to "messages" - implying
in-game ones)
>http://amaranthine1.2ya.com/Alternate%20Client%20Set-up1.JPG
A while ago I tried to come up with a more vertical arrangement for
Space Command. You've given me some fresh ideas. How about this to start
off with. Insert www, change $ to dots...
furfur$demon$co$uk/geop/temp$gif
The main problem with Space Command to me, on a laptop with a mere 1280
x 800 pixels, is that it ALWAYS obscures part of what I want to look at.
--
KlingonKommand >> Stay informed about: The AI |
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