4thEd. Spaceships,

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:17:41 +0200, "Peter Knutsen (usenet)"
<peter.TakeThisOut@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:

>Eric B. Smith wrote:
>> illyena wrote:
>>>I need a LOT of spaceships/ starships / starbases / space stations/
>>>for my 4th Ed. space Opera Campaign, and the 4th edition space book is
>>>sadly LACKING in areas of actually providing data on how to put a ship
>>>together, the Traveller universe Just doesnt fit and I really hate to
>>>spend the money on a book just to get use of 10 pages. any
>>>suggestions.
>>
>> If you really want to build them I'd suggest you use the Starship Creation
>> rules form Space 3e. Those rules are pretty much self-contained and
>> self-consistant.
>
>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).

Why would you want to? If a ship weapon hits a human, the human is
dead. If a human weapon hits a ship, it will go p'tuuiey.
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
> Eric B. Smith wrote:
> > Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
> >>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
> >>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
> >>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
> >
> > For Starship to Starship combat it doesn't matter. For Starship to other
>
> You are saying that conversion from 3E vehicle combat stats to 4E
> vehicle combat stats is linear.

IIRC, going from 3e to 4e, damage fron non-HE weapons and DR are
basically unchanged and HP are significant reduced (the larger the
object, the more they are reduced).

Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

illyena wrote:
> I need a LOT of spaceships/ starships / starbases / space stations/
> for my 4th Ed. space Opera Campaign, and the 4th edition space book is
> sadly LACKING in areas of actually providing data on how to put a ship
> together, the Traveller universe Just doesnt fit and I really hate to
> spend the money on a book just to get use of 10 pages. any suggestions.

What part of Traveller doesn't fit? I mean, you can arbitrarily change
the amount of thrust a maneuver drive provides or the range of a jump
drive (frex, range is equal to the J-Drive number squared, in parsecs,
or it's more like a hyperdrive, with a speed in light years equal to
the J-drive number, with a duration of one week at standard fuel load).

Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

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On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:42:39 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:17:41 +0200, "Peter Knutsen (usenet)"
><peter.RemoveThis@sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Eric B. Smith wrote:

<snip>

>>> If you really want to build them I'd suggest you use the Starship
>>> Creation rules form Space 3e. Those rules are pretty much
>>> self-contained and self-consistant.
>>
>>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the
>>stats to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
>
>Why would you want to?

Some people play "supers in space" - damage conversion becomes
necessary when a spacecraft fires on UberMensch, or he punches it...

<snip>

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 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

Eric B. Smith wrote:
> Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
>>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
>>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
>
> For Starship to Starship combat it doesn't matter. For Starship to other

You are saying that conversion from 3E vehicle combat stats to 4E
vehicle combat stats is linear.

(I don't know if it is. I'm just pointing out that this is what you're
saying)

> Vehicles combat it might, but there aren't any real rules for creating
> Vehicles. For Starship vs. people it really doesn't matter - a Starship can
> take more damage than most any man portable weapon can do, and can deal
> enough damage to vaporize most any man portable armor (let alone any
> unarmored people).

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:42:39 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net>
wrote:

>>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
>>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
>
>Why would you want to? If a ship weapon hits a human, the human is
>dead. If a human weapon hits a ship, it will go p'tuuiey.

How about RPGs?
--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn.RemoveThis@paradise.net.nz>
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 21:56:08 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
<rboleyn.DeleteThis@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:42:39 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.DeleteThis@block.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>>>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
>>>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
>>
>>Why would you want to? If a ship weapon hits a human, the human is
>>dead. If a human weapon hits a ship, it will go p'tuuiey.
>
>How about RPGs?

Yes.
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 21:56:08 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
<rboleyn.RemoveThis@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 06:42:39 GMT, David Johnston <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>They are also a lot easier to use than the Vehicles rules, without
>>>sacrificing much detail. The only question is how to convert the stats
>>>to 4E: Weapon damage, DR and hitpoints (are there others?).
>>
>>Why would you want to? If a ship weapon hits a human, the human is
>>dead. If a human weapon hits a ship, it will go p'tuuiey.
>
>How about RPGs?

an rpg is pretty impressive against a truck or apc but a ship is just
too big to be impressed much by an rpg. i wouldn't want to be in the
room next to the hull the rpg hit but i wouldn't loose any sleep over
being in the rooms beside that one.
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:07:14 GMT, "Eric B. Smith"
<smithericb.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Against a Space Ship the amount of damage is going to amount to little more
>than a scratch unless a direct (crit) hit is scored. Even the Star Freighter
>from the Basic Set has more than enough DR and HP to absorb multiple RPGs
>without much a problem. So, basically, unless the plot is calling for it
>they're not much of a worry.

It can soak about ten before going to 0HP (which I'd say isn't exactly
a spaceworthy state). That means each hit is about like a normal guy
losing a hit point. It's not major in and of itself, but it's far from
trivial, especially when the repair bill comes in. Up that to a TL8
LAW and it can take 4-5 hits before going to 0HP, and suddenly the
damage from one isn't trivial at all.
--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn.RemoveThis@paradise.net.nz>
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:27:46 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
<rboleyn.RemoveThis@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jun 2006 10:07:14 GMT, "Eric B. Smith"
><smithericb.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Against a Space Ship the amount of damage is going to amount to little more
>>than a scratch unless a direct (crit) hit is scored. Even the Star Freighter
>>from the Basic Set has more than enough DR and HP to absorb multiple RPGs
>>without much a problem. So, basically, unless the plot is calling for it
>>they're not much of a worry.
>
>It can soak about ten before going to 0HP (which I'd say isn't exactly
>a spaceworthy state). That means each hit is about like a normal guy
>losing a hit point. It's not major in and of itself, but it's far from
>trivial, especially when the repair bill comes in. Up that to a TL8
>LAW and it can take 4-5 hits before going to 0HP, and suddenly the
>damage from one isn't trivial at all.


er isn't the damage per hex side of ship?
if you are trying to model real life then 10 rpg hits randomly
distributed are bloody unlikely to do enough damage to affect the
structure of anything big enough to be called a ship unless it's made
of tinfoil.
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

copeab.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> illyena wrote:
> > I need a LOT of spaceships/ starships / starbases / space stations/
> > for my 4th Ed. space Opera Campaign, and the 4th edition space book is
> > sadly LACKING in areas of actually providing data on how to put a ship
> > together, the Traveller universe Just doesnt fit and I really hate to
> > spend the money on a book just to get use of 10 pages. any suggestions.
>
> What part of Traveller doesn't fit? I mean, you can arbitrarily change
> the amount of thrust a maneuver drive provides or the range of a jump
> drive (frex, range is equal to the J-Drive number squared, in parsecs,
> or it's more like a hyperdrive, with a speed in light years equal to
> the J-drive number, with a duration of one week at standard fuel load).
>
> Brandon

I was more referring to the fact that I dont have traveller and it does
have a ship creation system but that I didnt want to purchase a $50
book when I would only use the 10 pages of ship creation, and wanted
other suggestions on Q&D ship building. I think the suggestion to use
3e and wing it, is best. I am mostly concerned with the ships my
players own personally and hacking into the intelligent computer
systems on space stations.
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

copeab DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> Peter Knutsen (usenet) wrote:
>>You are saying that conversion from 3E vehicle combat stats to 4E
>>vehicle combat stats is linear.
>
> IIRC, going from 3e to 4e, damage fron non-HE weapons and DR are
> basically unchanged and HP are significant reduced (the larger the
> object, the more they are reduced).

Then the conversion of hitpoints is not linear, contrary to what Eric
wrote. 3E favours larger vehicles more than 4E does.

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships, 

illyena wrote:
> copeab DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> > illyena wrote:
> > > I need a LOT of spaceships/ starships / starbases / space stations/
> > > for my 4th Ed. space Opera Campaign, and the 4th edition space book is
> > > sadly LACKING in areas of actually providing data on how to put a ship
> > > together, the Traveller universe Just doesnt fit and I really hate to
> > > spend the money on a book just to get use of 10 pages. any suggestions.
> >
> > What part of Traveller doesn't fit? I mean, you can arbitrarily change
> > the amount of thrust a maneuver drive provides or the range of a jump
> > drive (frex, range is equal to the J-Drive number squared, in parsecs,
> > or it's more like a hyperdrive, with a speed in light years equal to
> > the J-drive number, with a duration of one week at standard fuel load).
>
> I was more referring to the fact that I dont have traveller and it does
> have a ship creation system but that I didnt want to purchase a $50
> book when I would only use the 10 pages of ship creation, and wanted
> other suggestions on Q&D ship building.

Okay, I misunderstood. I thought you had (3e) GURPS Traveller.

> I think the suggestion to use
> 3e and wing it, is best.

You may want to look at GURPS Traveller: Starships, a book that is
almost entirely devoted to starship design. IIRC, you don't need GURPS
Traveller (the design system is fully contained in the book). The
downside, of course, is that it's optimized for a specific set of tech
assumptions. There are also no rules for starship combat.

Space 3e has design rules mostly conpatable with Vehicles 2e and a
stand-alone space combat system.

Space 2e has simpler design rules that predate even Vehicles 1e and has
a different stand-alone space combat system.

Brandon
 >> Stay informed about: 4thEd. Spaceships,