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Since: Apr 25, 2004 Posts: 327
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:33 pm
Post subject: 4E in play Archived from groups: rec>games>frp>dnd (more info?)
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I finally got the chance to the Raiders of Oakhurst 4E adventure last
night (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220317).
The group started out in Oakhurst where they found out about the
problems being caused by the raiders. They saw the broken fences,
chicken carcasses and livestock with shocked expressions wandering
around. There were 5 players so only 5 PCs: the cleric, ranger, fighter,
warlock and wizard, with the paladin being left out. They managed to
bargain Teren into paying them 10 silver pieces each, making 60 sp in
all. This is what happens when the DM has had a beer before playing.
They followed the trail of destruction, dead chickens and duct tape
barnyard animals to the dark, damp gash in the hillside which
constituted the dungeon. Play stopped here for a minute or so while we
got the images of rockets taking off and trains entering tunnels out of
our system.
ANYWAY, they had little trouble dispatching the first mob of kobolds,
although the warlock kept missing her attack rolls -- a sign of what was
to come. I got the map messed up, so instead of more kobolds coming to
join the fight, it was the hobgoblins who surprised the party while they
were checking the cave out. That was a much tougher fight, with the
fighter being knocked out and knocked into the water from the
warcaster's force lance. But then they killed both the warcaster and the
soldier, and the two archers ran away.
After retreating for a bit to rest up, they came back, fought the
remaining kobold minions and skirmishers and killed them quickly.
Advancing further, the ranger walked into Meepo's cave and underneath Ix
the spider, who was hanging from the ceiling. Ix scored max damage with
the ensuing death from above and took him down in one hit. This brought
a brief flurry of panic, but Ix with a spent DFA wasn't much of a threat
and they killed it too.
Meepo put up some token resistance after they killed his spider but
quickly surrendered. He wasn't one for personal dignity and was entirely
willing to debase himself in the interests of self-preservation. "Meepo
appeal to mighty warriors' better side! Meepo give out information about
evil dragon who is wreaking havoc!", "Meepo appeal to greedy
adventurers' baser side! Meepo let you clean up all his treasure!" and
so on in a rather unseemly and embarrassing way. The cleric pointed to
his crotch and said hey Meepo, if you're serious, clean this. Meepo,
being a mere kobold with no idea about human social mores and innuendo,
pulled out a wire brush and detergent, and got clipped around the ear as
a result.
They finished him off ("for heinous and unspeakable crimes against
innocent livestock"), rather cold-heartedly I thought, and went off to
confront Nightscale. It wasn't quite a massacre, but it was close. The
dragon's AC and defenses were basically too high for them to handle, and
the fighter got repeatedly punished by the reactive tail slash. I even
nerfed the dragon inadvertently by forgetting its action points and
reach, and they still only did about 70 points damage to it before
running away. The party got separated, with the fighter, ranger and
cleric escaping while the wizard got killed and the warlock pledged her
service to the dragon. Karma bites, literally in this case.
.. . .
The warlock's player was frustrated by always missing. That was more due
to rolling badly, but for a striker class, the warlock didn't prove that
much more dangerous than the other PCs.
The cleric proved surprisingly effective as an attacker. His daily power
took down the hobgoblin warcaster after the fighter was knocked out,
which swung the fight, and his lance of faith was also very useful.
The fighter was frustrated at being a damage sponge. Not having the
paladin probably hurt him more than the others, since he was basically
the only melee guy (the cleric tended to hang back and use lance of
faith). This might be a play style issue more than anything; this player
usually plays characters who hang back and avoid tangling in melee.
1-1-1 diagonals didn't bother anyone, and being able to count off
squares rapidly helped keep things moving at a fast pace.
Movement (voluntary or involuntary) didn't play as big a role as I
thought it would. Possibly as we get more experience with 4E tactical
options, this will change.
The fights were fast and we managed to do the whole dungeon (5 fights
plus out-of-combat interaction) in about 4 1/2 hours. I didn't count the
rounds, but I think most of them were 10 rounds or less. The Nightscale
fight was about 20 rounds; the characters survived that long because the
dragon also kept missing with its attacks.
From this, I conclude there's not as much "shock" as in 3E fights.
Except for Ix's death from above, none of the enemies could really deal
large chunks of damage in one blow, so the fights were more tactical: a
process of outmaneuvering/out-attritioning the enemy. Say what you will
about 3E combat, there's something viscerally satisfying about removing
half or more of someone's hp in one hit (that spike damage I keep
harping on about). Hopefully this is something that will change at
higher levels. >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 45
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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When I played Sunless Citadel we made friends with the kobolds not
only because we returned their "pet" (Meepo died in the fight) but
also we took out their goblin rivals so they gained control of the
dungeon. Oakhurst and the kobolds didn't become fast friends, but
they left each other alone with the occasional trade.
How sad to see things didn't work out.
I know kobolds are evil, but I never get the impression they are
Evil. If people just leave them alone you could get along with them.
:b
Gerald Katz >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Feb 25, 2008 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:29 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 16 Mar, 22:06, Hadsil <forum....RemoveThis@netzero.com> wrote:
> When I played Sunless Citadel we made friends with the kobolds not
> only because we returned their "pet" (Meepo died in the fight) but
> also we took out their goblin rivals so they gained control of the
> dungeon. Oakhurst and the kobolds didn't become fast friends, but
> they left each other alone with the occasional trade.
>
> How sad to see things didn't work out.
>
>
>
> I know kobolds are evil, but I never get the impression they are
> Evil.
In 4E I believe the distinction between evil and Evil is in the game
mechanics.
>If people just leave them alone you could get along with them.
>
> :b
>
> Gerald Katz >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 182
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:31 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 15, 11:33 pm, Hong Ooi <h....RemoveThis@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
> I finally got the chance to the Raiders of Oakhurst 4E adventure last
> night (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220317).
Sounds like it was a fun game!
> From this, I conclude there's not as much "shock" as in 3E fights.
> Except for Ix's death from above, none of the enemies could really deal
> large chunks of damage in one blow, so the fights were more tactical: a
> process of outmaneuvering/out-attritioning the enemy. Say what you will
> about 3E combat, there's something viscerally satisfying about removing
> half or more of someone's hp in one hit (that spike damage I keep
> harping on about). Hopefully this is something that will change at
> higher levels.
From what the design goals have stated is to keep "shock" entirely out
of the game, and keep everything same-o-same-o throughout the levels.
That should be effortless to reinstate through 3e style critical hits
if that's to your taste. That's probably one thing I'll tweak right
away.
- Justisaur >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Aug 21, 2004 Posts: 1923
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:13 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Mark wrote:
>> When I played Sunless Citadel we made friends with the kobolds not
>> only because we returned their "pet" (Meepo died in the fight) but
>> also we took out their goblin rivals so they gained control of the
>> dungeon. Oakhurst and the kobolds didn't become fast friends, but
>> they left each other alone with the occasional trade.
>>
>> How sad to see things didn't work out.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know kobolds are evil, but I never get the impression they are
>> Evil.
>
> In 4E I believe the distinction between evil and Evil is in the game
> mechanics.
I don't think it is. It appears that there are simply more things that
are neither Good nor Evil. And kobolds are still Evil.
--
Jasin >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 182
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 17, 2:23 pm, Tetsubo <tets....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> > On Mar 15, 11:33 pm, Hong Ooi <h....RemoveThis@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>
> >>I finally got the chance to the Raiders of Oakhurst 4E adventure last
> >>night (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220317).
>
> > Sounds like it was a fun game!
>
> >> From this, I conclude there's not as much "shock" as in 3E fights.
> >>Except for Ix's death from above, none of the enemies could really deal
> >>large chunks of damage in one blow, so the fights were more tactical: a
> >>process of outmaneuvering/out-attritioning the enemy. Say what you will
> >>about 3E combat, there's something viscerally satisfying about removing
> >>half or more of someone's hp in one hit (that spike damage I keep
> >>harping on about). Hopefully this is something that will change at
> >>higher levels.
>
> > From what the design goals have stated is to keep "shock" entirely out
> > of the game, and keep everything same-o-same-o throughout the levels.
>
> > That should be effortless to reinstate through 3e style critical hits
> > if that's to your taste. That's probably one thing I'll tweak right
> > away.
>
> > - Justisaur
>
> I still think it is a sad comment on a rules system that people are
> feeling the need to House Rule it prior to it being *published*. That
> right there is a Bad Sign.
>
I think it says more about me. I'm a chronic tinkerer. I was house
ruling 3.5 before it came out too.
- Justisaur >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Jun 06, 2004 Posts: 460
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Justisaur wrote:
> On Mar 15, 11:33 pm, Hong Ooi <h....DeleteThis@zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>
>>I finally got the chance to the Raiders of Oakhurst 4E adventure last
>>night (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220317).
>
>
> Sounds like it was a fun game!
>
>
>> From this, I conclude there's not as much "shock" as in 3E fights.
>>Except for Ix's death from above, none of the enemies could really deal
>>large chunks of damage in one blow, so the fights were more tactical: a
>>process of outmaneuvering/out-attritioning the enemy. Say what you will
>>about 3E combat, there's something viscerally satisfying about removing
>>half or more of someone's hp in one hit (that spike damage I keep
>>harping on about). Hopefully this is something that will change at
>>higher levels.
>
>
> From what the design goals have stated is to keep "shock" entirely out
> of the game, and keep everything same-o-same-o throughout the levels.
>
> That should be effortless to reinstate through 3e style critical hits
> if that's to your taste. That's probably one thing I'll tweak right
> away.
>
> - Justisaur
>
I still think it is a sad comment on a rules system that people are
feeling the need to House Rule it prior to it being *published*. That
right there is a Bad Sign.
--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
BLUP >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Apr 25, 2004 Posts: 327
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>>> When I played Sunless Citadel we made friends with the kobolds not
>>> only because we returned their "pet" (Meepo died in the fight) but
>>> also we took out their goblin rivals so they gained control of the
>>> dungeon. Oakhurst and the kobolds didn't become fast friends, but
>>> they left each other alone with the occasional trade.
>>>
>>> How sad to see things didn't work out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know kobolds are evil, but I never get the impression they are
>>> Evil.
>>
>> In 4E I believe the distinction between evil and Evil is in the game
>> mechanics.
>
> I don't think it is. It appears that there are simply more things that
> are neither Good nor Evil.
The cleric in my session was striving to be beyond Good and Evil. In my
post-fact reimagining of the narrative, anyway.
>And kobolds are still Evil.
I suspect it's paving the way for alignment to disappear entirely in 5E. >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: May 18, 2007 Posts: 7
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 18, 4:24 am, Tetsubo <tets... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
> But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
So has every other system I've used in the last 20+ years. If you
haven't had to tinker with a rules system over the course of your
gaming career, either you live in a vacuum, made the statement to
indirectly express your fear of change or are unimaginative. I know
it's not the third one, and I don't think you live in a vaccum. >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Jun 06, 2004 Posts: 460
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:24 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Justisaur wrote:
> On Mar 17, 2:23 pm, Tetsubo <tets... DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Justisaur wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 15, 11:33 pm, Hong Ooi <h... DeleteThis @zipworld.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>>I finally got the chance to the Raiders of Oakhurst 4E adventure last
>>>>night (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220317).
>>
>>>Sounds like it was a fun game!
>>
>>>>From this, I conclude there's not as much "shock" as in 3E fights.
>>>>Except for Ix's death from above, none of the enemies could really deal
>>>>large chunks of damage in one blow, so the fights were more tactical: a
>>>>process of outmaneuvering/out-attritioning the enemy. Say what you will
>>>>about 3E combat, there's something viscerally satisfying about removing
>>>>half or more of someone's hp in one hit (that spike damage I keep
>>>>harping on about). Hopefully this is something that will change at
>>>>higher levels.
>>
>>>From what the design goals have stated is to keep "shock" entirely out
>>>of the game, and keep everything same-o-same-o throughout the levels.
>>
>>>That should be effortless to reinstate through 3e style critical hits
>>>if that's to your taste. That's probably one thing I'll tweak right
>>>away.
>>
>>>- Justisaur
>>
>> I still think it is a sad comment on a rules system that people are
>>feeling the need to House Rule it prior to it being *published*. That
>>right there is a Bad Sign.
>>
>
>
> I think it says more about me. I'm a chronic tinkerer. I was house
> ruling 3.5 before it came out too.
>
> - Justisaur
But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
BLUP >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Mar 31, 2007 Posts: 154
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Tetsubo wrote:
>
> But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
>
All systems *need* the tinkering. At least, in 30 years of gaming
I've never encountered the system that needed NO tinkering. 3e has
needed the least of the various incarnations of D&D, but even it
needed work.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Feb 19, 2005 Posts: 1045
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:01 am
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Sea Wasp wrote:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>> But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
>
> All systems *need* the tinkering. At least, in 30 years of gaming
> I've never encountered the system that needed NO tinkering. 3e has
> needed the least of the various incarnations of D&D, but even it needed
> work.
I'd be extremely wary of a GM who claims to be using the rules 100% as
they are in the book. He has to have written house rules to show me.
Heck, I even have house rules for Sagatafl, my own homebrew RPG. There's
the default magic system, and then a slightly tweaked version to better
simulate the way magic works on Ärth.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Apr 17, 2007 Posts: 182
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 18, 4:50 am, Sea Wasp <seawaspObvi... RemoveThis @sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>
> > But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
>
> All systems *need* the tinkering. At least, in 30 years of gaming
> I've never encountered the system that needed NO tinkering. 3e has
> needed the least of the various incarnations of D&D, but even it
> needed work.
>
True. I've even tinkered with chess and monopoly... The chess people
are too uptight though. They don't like tinkering with the game.
Monopoly not so much of a big deal.
- Justisaur >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Feb 26, 2005 Posts: 657
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Mar 18, 6:50 am, Sea Wasp <seawaspObvi... RemoveThis @sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
> Tetsubo wrote:
>
> > But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
>
> All systems *need* the tinkering. At least, in 30 years of gaming
> I've never encountered the system that needed NO tinkering. 3e has
> needed the least of the various incarnations of D&D, but even it
> needed work.
Oddly, I've run into someone online in the past month who thinks that
GMs who use house rules require more trust than GMs who don't.
Brandon >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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Since: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 135
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:31 pm
Post subject: Re: 4E in play [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article
<d7b7c643-63d3-46fd-9b7e-21b72293f835 RemoveThis @e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Justisaur <justisaur RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 18, 4:50 am, Sea Wasp <seawaspObvi... RemoveThis @sgeObviousinc.com> wrote:
> > Tetsubo wrote:
> >
> > > But this time around it looks like the system *needs* the tinkering.
> >
> > All systems *need* the tinkering. At least, in 30 years of gaming
> > I've never encountered the system that needed NO tinkering. 3e has
> > needed the least of the various incarnations of D&D, but even it
> > needed work.
> >
>
> True. I've even tinkered with chess and monopoly... The chess people
> are too uptight though. They don't like tinkering with the game.
> Monopoly not so much of a big deal.
There are enough chess variants that you could probably find a variant
close to your tinkering.
When I was in the 6th grade I played a Japanese equivalent that was
pretty engaging.
- Allen >> Stay informed about: 4E in play |
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