4E compiled monsters and more

On Mar 18, 4:30 pm, Matt Frisch <matus....RemoveThis@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h....RemoveThis@zipworld.com.au>
> scribed into the ether:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mar 18, 5:43 am, Matt Frisch <matus....RemoveThis@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h....RemoveThis@zipworld.com.au>
> >> scribed into the ether:
>
> >> >On Mar 17, 1:23 pm, Matt Frisch <matus....RemoveThis@yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:42:04 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h....RemoveThis@zipworld.com.au>
> >> >> scribed into the ether:
>
> >> >> >On Mar 17, 9:02 am, Allen Wessels <awess....RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> In article <GdWdnaUOT8fKD0DanZ2dnUVZ_ualn....RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
>
> >> >> >>  Tetsubo <tets....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Allen Wessels wrote:
> >> >> >> > > One begins to understand and empathize with why royalty from time to
> >> >> >> > > time had court jesters tortured and/or executed.
> >> >> >> >    The role of the Jester was to tell the King the truth via humor and
> >> >> >> > verse. He may well be the only person in Court that could do that and
> >> >> >> > not be executed. In many ways he played the role of Jimney Cricket.
>
> >> >> >> Every Jester or Bard walked a fine line.
>
> >> >> >> >    Hong is failing miserably at this if he is the newsgroups Jester. The
> >> >> >> > joke on D&D players is 4E.
>
> >> >> >> All jokes wear thin if you overuse them.
>
> >> >> >Yes, that's what Matt would say.
>
> >> >> No, I'm just waiting for you to demonstrate the ability to do anything
> >> >> better than me,
>
> >> >I fail to do a high-pitched voice better than you.
>
> >> >>since that's about the only claim you've ever made, and yet
> >> >> it has never actually materialized.
>
> >> >Have a generic food metaphor on me.
>
> >> >> Rather sad, when nobody else has ever seen the one thing you claim to be
> >> >> good at.
>
> >> >I've already admitted that you do a high-pitched voice better than me.
> >> >I suppose continuing in this vein can only throw up more things that
> >> >you do better than me, but, well, that's your lookout.
>
> >> >> PS: Piss off, troll.
>
> >> >Whereas I still do this better than you.
>
> >> Pathetic.
>
> >Indeed, that is another thing you do better than me. So that's two
> >things so far!
>
> Add reading comprehension, subtract for your lack thereof.

That's THREE things you do better than me!

>
> Still pathetic, Hong. I remember when you at least used to be mildly
> entertaining.

Tetsubo did this better than you. No, wait, he didn't actually do it
better than you.

>Now you're Terry with even less variance in what you say.

Terry does this better than you.
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

In article <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008.RemoveThis@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
Allen Wessels <awessels.RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>
>I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved when
>they should be selling Different and Better and showing why. The images
>I get when thinking about combat are more like Big Trouble in Little
>China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.

And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea
years ago...

And I know what you mean about it sounding less like the D&D
we've known, and more like a whole new game. I think/hope that
it's going to be a great new game, and that I can drop it into
the same slot in my RPGing hobby time that D&D currently fills.
I don't have quite the sentimental attachment to the trappings
of D&D that a lot of longtime D&D players have... to me, D&D
is just the best balanced/most playable fantasy adventure
game - if another game did a better job of filling that niche,
I'd use it. I guess we'll see soon enough whether 4e is going
to be that game...

--
"I know I promised, Lord, never again. But I also know
that YOU know what a weak-willed person I am."
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Del Rio wrote:

> One thing that seems slightly weird to me is that it *sounds*
> like slide is invoked by the player whose turn it is - does
> that allow you to decide the movement of other party members?

I could see some people having far too much fun with this on other party
members...
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:07:52 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi
<hong.TakeThisOut@zipworld.com.au> wrote:

>On Mar 18, 7:02=A0am, Keith Davies <keith.dav....TakeThisOut@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>
>> My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from Justin's
>> article on expectations. =A0Every five levels or so should be a step up in=
>
>> power category. =A0Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. =A0I can acce=
>pt
>> that.
>>
>> A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.

>Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.
>The "magic is a license to print money" meme should have died 25 years
>ago.

Our group hasn't been doing Eberron, so I've just gotten around to
looking at some of the things there. Woah - talk about printing
money! An "Heir of Siberys" (ECS p.80-81) Prestige Class from the
Cannith Family (Mark of Making) can cast TRUE CREATION as a Spell-like
ability at 15th level (1/day at 2nd level HoS, 2/day at 3rd level
HoS.) Normally what keeps the TRUE CREATION spell in check is that it
costs you XP equal to the gp value of what you create in ECS (or 1/2
that if using the Spell Compendium version). But when you cast things
as Spell-like abilities there =are= no components - that means no V,
S, M =or= XP (PH, p.180). So you can create 15 cubic feet of gold,
mithral or adamantine once or twice per day for free. Or maybe a 15
cubic foot diamond. Yikes!

Is there something out there that modifies this? FAQ, Errata, etc.?
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Alien mind control rays made Harold Groot <quester.DeleteThis@infionline.net> write:
> S, M =or= XP (PH, p.180). So you can create 15 cubic feet of gold,
> mithral or adamantine once or twice per day for free. Or maybe a 15
> cubic foot diamond. Yikes!
>
> Is there something out there that modifies this? FAQ, Errata, etc.?

Eberron Campaign Setting Errata
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/ECSerrata_02062006.zip

Page 81: Heir of Siberys Prestige Class
The Siberys Mark of Making grants the spell-like ability of true
creation once per day. Add the following sentence to the Mark of
Making paragraph:
The heir of Siberys must pay the normal XP cost of the true creation
spell (see page 117) each time he uses this ability.

--
._n_______n_. drow.DeleteThis@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
| --------- |== -----------------------------------------------------------
I"/""|"|Z7""' "Today is Election Day, and we urge all citizens to vote
lJ | | NO with the weapon of their choice."
|_l -- KViSR Radio
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Hong Ooi wrote:
> On Mar 18, 4:30 pm, Matt Frisch <matus... RemoveThis @yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h... RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au>
>>scribed into the ether:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Mar 18, 5:43 am, Matt Frisch <matus... RemoveThis @yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 23:00:06 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h... RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au>
>>>>scribed into the ether:
>>
>>>>>On Mar 17, 1:23 pm, Matt Frisch <matus... RemoveThis @yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:42:04 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h... RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au>
>>>>>>scribed into the ether:
>>
>>>>>>>On Mar 17, 9:02 am, Allen Wessels <awess... RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article <GdWdnaUOT8fKD0DanZ2dnUVZ_ualn... RemoveThis @comcast.com>,
>>
>>>>>>>> Tetsubo <tets... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Allen Wessels wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>One begins to understand and empathize with why royalty from time to
>>>>>>>>>>time had court jesters tortured and/or executed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The role of the Jester was to tell the King the truth via humor and
>>>>>>>>>verse. He may well be the only person in Court that could do that and
>>>>>>>>>not be executed. In many ways he played the role of Jimney Cricket.
>>
>>>>>>>>Every Jester or Bard walked a fine line.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Hong is failing miserably at this if he is the newsgroups Jester. The
>>>>>>>>>joke on D&D players is 4E.
>>
>>>>>>>>All jokes wear thin if you overuse them.
>>
>>>>>>>Yes, that's what Matt would say.
>>
>>>>>>No, I'm just waiting for you to demonstrate the ability to do anything
>>>>>>better than me,
>>
>>>>>I fail to do a high-pitched voice better than you.
>>
>>>>>>since that's about the only claim you've ever made, and yet
>>>>>>it has never actually materialized.
>>
>>>>>Have a generic food metaphor on me.
>>
>>>>>>Rather sad, when nobody else has ever seen the one thing you claim to be
>>>>>>good at.
>>
>>>>>I've already admitted that you do a high-pitched voice better than me.
>>>>>I suppose continuing in this vein can only throw up more things that
>>>>>you do better than me, but, well, that's your lookout.
>>
>>>>>>PS: Piss off, troll.
>>
>>>>>Whereas I still do this better than you.
>>
>>>>Pathetic.
>>
>>>Indeed, that is another thing you do better than me. So that's two
>>>things so far!
>>
>>Add reading comprehension, subtract for your lack thereof.
>
>
> That's THREE things you do better than me!
>
>
>>Still pathetic, Hong. I remember when you at least used to be mildly
>>entertaining.
>
>
> Tetsubo did this better than you. No, wait, he didn't actually do it
> better than you.

But then again, I wasn't trying.

>
>
>>Now you're Terry with even less variance in what you say.
>
>
> Terry does this better than you.
>
>


--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Del Rio wrote:
> In article <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008 RemoveThis @newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
> Allen Wessels <awessels RemoveThis @EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved when
>>they should be selling Different and Better and showing why. The images
>>I get when thinking about combat are more like Big Trouble in Little
>>China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>
>
> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea
> years ago...

The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the Everyman
Hero.

Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure" BTiLC.
All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my favorite
RPGs of all time.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Hong Ooi wrote:
> On Mar 18, 7:02 am, Keith Davies <keith.dav....RemoveThis@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>
>>My KSRD design philosophy, power-wise, is somewhat derived from Justin's
>>article on expectations. Every five levels or so should be a step up in
>>power category. Normal, Heroic, Superheroic, Demigodlike. I can accept
>>that.
>>
>>A Wiz16 *should* be able to warp reality.
>
>
> Within rigidly predefined limits predicated on game balance, anyway.

Still invoking that false god Game Balance. Or rather, the false
PERCEPTION of the God Game Balance. You won't find Game Balance in the
book, any more than you'll find Jehovah in the Torah or God in the
Bible. You'll find Game Balance in the play and the players. If the
players WANT balance, they'll have it. If they don't, they won't.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Sea Wasp wrote:

> Del Rio wrote:
>
>> In article <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008.TakeThisOut@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>> Allen Wessels <awessels.TakeThisOut@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved when
>>> they should be selling Different and Better and showing why. The
>>> images I get when thinking about combat are more like Big Trouble in
>>> Little China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>>
>>
>>
>> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
>> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea years
>> ago...
>
>
> The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
> character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the Everyman Hero.
>
> Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure" BTiLC.
> All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my favorite RPGs
> of all time.
>
>
>
>

Is Feng Shui any good? I mean the RPG, not the concept...

--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller

BLUP
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

Tetsubo wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> Del Rio wrote:
>>
>>> In article <awessels-FCBF1B.17171317032008.RemoveThis@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net>,
>>> Allen Wessels <awessels.RemoveThis@EXPUNGEpacbell.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just hate the fact that they're selling it as New and Improved
>>>> when they should be selling Different and Better and showing why.
>>>> The images I get when thinking about combat are more like Big
>>>> Trouble in Little China or Chinese Ghost story than D&D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And I would LOVE a Big Trouble in Little China RPG, enough that
>>> I'm already kicking myself for not coming up with the idea years
>>> ago...
>>
>>
>>
>> The game is already out. It's called Feng Shui. It even has a
>> character template which clearly draws from Jack Burton: the Everyman
>> Hero.
>>
>> Just don't use the background, if you want to keep it "pure"
>> BTiLC. All the mechanics you need are right there. It's one of my
>> favorite RPGs of all time.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> Is Feng Shui any good? I mean the RPG, not the concept...
>

It's one of my favorite games of all time, as I said. That tells you
that *I* think it's great. It's one of the games I have to tweak least
in order to run it.

--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

In article <slrnfttja2.5vv.keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org>,
Keith Davies <keith.davies DeleteThis @kjdavies.org> wrote:
>Del Rio <delrio DeleteThis @panix.com> wrote:
>> It seems to me that being able to do stuff like Mage Hand and/or
>> Light "at will" makes D&D Wizard seem almost like... you know,
>> *wizards*. As opposed to people who at high levels can execute
>> absolutely mind-blowing amounts of death and destruction, but
>> can still only cast Light once, because that's all they
>> memorized.
>
>With the exception of a very few 0-level spells with cumulative effects
>(create water and cure minor wounds IIRC) we allowed fullcasters
>(wizards, sorcerers, clerics, druids) use 0-level spells at will. You
>still had to prepare them (a number equal to the class spells/day table
>+ casting ability score modifier) but were otherwise unlimited in how
>you used them.
>
>No balance problem at fifth level. Most of the time your highest-level
>spells are the ones you *want*, having cantrips available was merely a
>convenience and flavor. Well, it did save me *many* coppers in torch
>expenses, I guess.
>
>There's the occasional actual adventuring use (I used /mage hand/ to
>lift a silk rope and wrapped it around a projection some 15 feet above
>me; somebody might've had to make a Climb check if I hadn't) or even use
>in combat (I was fortunate enough to have /ray of frost/ when we faced
>off against some fire-templated ochre jellies, so I could stay back and
>snipe at the slow-moving beasties and get the bonus damage!), but really
>it takes special circumstances for there to be any balance issues here.

Your patches seem reasonable to me. I've always questioned the
extreme limitaions on the lowest level utility spells. (Your
daily number of cantrips don't even improved by ability score,
fer chrisakes!) 3.X improved so many other "obvious" things
I've always wondered why they kept the clamps down so tightly
on 0-level spells (which anyway are mosty about flavor, not
game balance).

--
"I know I promised, Lord, never again. But I also know
that YOU know what a weak-willed person I am."
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

"My Conscience" <thatdarnsocknipping.DeleteThis@myheels.invalid> wrote in message
news:RDLDj.21084$CD7.7049@newsfe11.phx...
> Del Rio wrote:
>
>> One thing that seems slightly weird to me is that it *sounds*
>> like slide is invoked by the player whose turn it is - does
>> that allow you to decide the movement of other party members?
>
> I could see some people having far too much fun with this on other party
> members...

I am willing to bet the party member can choose not to slide. He probably
cannot choose the direction of the slide (which is a factor of the Warlord's
tactical advice, so that makes sense), but he can always choose not to move.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more 

On Mar 19, 2:55 am, Matt Frisch <matus... RemoveThis @yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:30:11 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h... RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au>
> scribed into the ether:
>
> >On Mar 18, 4:30 pm, Matt Frisch <matus... RemoveThis @yahoo.spam.me.not.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Hong Ooi <h... RemoveThis @zipworld.com.au>
> >> scribed into the ether:
>
> [Hong's relevant text left unsnipped]

I'm not entirely sure that you do irrelevance better than me, but I'm
willing to believe you. That's how good a guy I am.
 >> Stay informed about: 4E compiled monsters and more