Are there any 12-conduct ascensions?

On Jan 3, 1:55 am, "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 4:32 am, Carl <carlhnel....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > If anyone out there would care to lend some advice it'd be
> > appreciated.  Here is the situation:
>
> > I just made it with my 12-conduct wizard down to the Oracle and am now
> > level 3.  I have a blessed potion of gain level upstairs and thus will
> > be at level 4 soon.  I'm wearing my starting ring of slow digestion
> > and have a found wand of polymorph with the engrave charge gone.  My
> > second spell is charm monster and if not clad in metal, I can cast it
> > at 0% failure.  However, I have a current/max int of 16 and thus use
> > nutrition to cast spells.  I have not yet found a ring of polymorph or
> > poly control.  There is also a locked shop on LVL 2 that I will open
> > at the next opportunity.
>
> > Should I:
> > 1) stick with the large cat and explore Sokoban;
> > 2) polymorph my large cat and see what I can get before the wand
> > expires;
> > 3) charm some monsters and have more friendlies around, never mind the
> > drain on nutrition;
>
> I'd go #3 _if_ you find something good enough to be pretty confident
> clearing soko easily.  If not, #2.  Now is not the time to conserve
> resources; even in a heavy conduct game, you're better off using what
> you have earlier and seeing what you get along the way.- Hide quoted text -
>
Good news! I found a polytrap on the level below the Oracle! So, me
and my pet black dragon are now going into Sokoban ... giant ants,
beware!

That's good advice regarding resource conservation. Not that I won't
be conscientious, but I don't want to die with unused teleport zaps,
etc.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 3, 5:48 am, Henry J Cobb <hc... DeleteThis @io.com> wrote:
> Carl wrote:
> > If anyone out there would care to lend some advice it'd be
> > appreciated.  Here is the situation:
>
> > I just made it with my 12-conduct wizard down to the Oracle and am now
> > level 3.  I have a blessed potion of gain level upstairs and thus will
> > be at level 4 soon.  I'm wearing my starting ring of slow digestion
> > and have a found wand of polymorph with the engrave charge gone.  My
> > second spell is charm monster and if not clad in metal, I can cast it
> > at 0% failure.  However, I have a current/max int of 16 and thus use
> > nutrition to cast spells.  I have not yet found a ring of polymorph or
> > poly control.  There is also a locked shop on LVL 2 that I will open
> > at the next opportunity.
>
> > Should I:
> > 1) stick with the large cat and explore Sokoban;
> > 2) polymorph my large cat and see what I can get before the wand
> > expires;
> > 3) charm some monsters and have more friendlies around, never mind the
> > drain on nutrition;
>
> I'd go into Sokoban and see what goodies you can find on the first three
> levels.
>
> If you can get a magic whistle then consider taking the giant mimics
> along with you as speed bumps.

That's a clever idea, I wonder how well it would work in practice. In
either case I don't have a magic whistle, and I don't think that I'll
find one before my dragon kills the Sokoban mimics. I was actually
hoping to find a sink for an endless supply of pets, courtesy of charm
monster and my polytrap. This might be a good way to get a good
supply of purple worms.

Does anyone know ... can a polytrap ever turn a monster into an
archon?

>
> Just remember that just about any food item you carry will turn into a
> domestic pet at some point, so it's worth saving zaps for three in a
> row. (Pay attention to pets picking up and dropping items.)
>
> I just found a bunch of Orcs in Sokoban and one of them had this real
> shiny shield so naturally I got the amulet at the end.
>
... that is sometimes the way it goes.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, Carl <carlhnel....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 5:48 am, Henry J Cobb <hc....DeleteThis@io.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Carl wrote:
> > > If anyone out there would care to lend some advice it'd be
> > > appreciated. Here is the situation:
>
> > > I just made it with my 12-conduct wizard down to the Oracle and am now
> > > level 3. I have a blessed potion of gain level upstairs and thus will
> > > be at level 4 soon. I'm wearing my starting ring of slow digestion
> > > and have a found wand of polymorph with the engrave charge gone. My
> > > second spell is charm monster and if not clad in metal, I can cast it
> > > at 0% failure. However, I have a current/max int of 16 and thus use
> > > nutrition to cast spells. I have not yet found a ring of polymorph or
> > > poly control. There is also a locked shop on LVL 2 that I will open
> > > at the next opportunity.
>
> > > Should I:
> > > 1) stick with the large cat and explore Sokoban;
> > > 2) polymorph my large cat and see what I can get before the wand
> > > expires;
> > > 3) charm some monsters and have more friendlies around, never mind the
> > > drain on nutrition;
>
> > I'd go into Sokoban and see what goodies you can find on the first three
> > levels.
>
> > If you can get a magic whistle then consider taking the giant mimics
> > along with you as speed bumps.
>
> That's a clever idea, I wonder how well it would work in practice. In
> either case I don't have a magic whistle, and I don't think that I'll
> find one before my dragon kills the Sokoban mimics. I was actually
> hoping to find a sink for an endless supply of pets, courtesy of charm
> monster and my polytrap. This might be a good way to get a good
> supply of purple worms.
>
> Does anyone know ... can a polytrap ever turn a monster into an
> archon?

Archons are M2_NOPOLY, so I don't think so.

I had a conversation with marvin once and he recommended balrogs as
among the best available from polytraps. I've had decent luck with
titans but wouldnt' expect them to make it through the planes.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 4, 6:25 pm, "sjdevn...@yahoo.com" <sjdevn....TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2:45 pm, Carl <carlhnel....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 3, 5:48 am, Henry J Cobb <hc....TakeThisOut@io.com> wrote:
>
> > > Carl wrote:
> > > > If anyone out there would care to lend some advice it'd be
> > > > appreciated. Here is the situation:
>
> > > > I just made it with my 12-conduct wizard down to the Oracle and am now
> > > > level 3. I have a blessed potion of gain level upstairs and thus will
> > > > be at level 4 soon. I'm wearing my starting ring of slow digestion
> > > > and have a found wand of polymorph with the engrave charge gone. My
> > > > second spell is charm monster and if not clad in metal, I can cast it
> > > > at 0% failure. However, I have a current/max int of 16 and thus use
> > > > nutrition to cast spells. I have not yet found a ring of polymorph or
> > > > poly control. There is also a locked shop on LVL 2 that I will open
> > > > at the next opportunity.
>
> > > > Should I:
> > > > 1) stick with the large cat and explore Sokoban;
> > > > 2) polymorph my large cat and see what I can get before the wand
> > > > expires;
> > > > 3) charm some monsters and have more friendlies around, never mind the
> > > > drain on nutrition;
>
> > > I'd go into Sokoban and see what goodies you can find on the first three
> > > levels.
>
> > > If you can get a magic whistle then consider taking the giant mimics
> > > along with you as speed bumps.
>
> > That's a clever idea, I wonder how well it would work in practice. In
> > either case I don't have a magic whistle, and I don't think that I'll
> > find one before my dragon kills the Sokoban mimics. I was actually
> > hoping to find a sink for an endless supply of pets, courtesy of charm
> > monster and my polytrap. This might be a good way to get a good
> > supply of purple worms.
>
> > Does anyone know ... can a polytrap ever turn a monster into an
> > archon?
>
> Archons are M2_NOPOLY, so I don't think so.

Okay, thanks.

>
> I had a conversation with marvin once and he recommended balrogs as
> among the best available from polytraps. I've had decent luck with
> titans but wouldnt' expect them to make it through the planes.

I think if one is going to depend on a particular pet then having one
that doesn't eat is important, so I can see why a balrog would be
great, do they tend to survive the planes? A Level 49 purple worm is
great but it can be gone in one turn if it eats a chameleon. Despite
my typical dislike of liches as pets, I can see how for a pacifist one
might be perfect given their ability to heal themselves, teleport to
you, and resist magic. But how well liches would do on the planes, I
do not know given that they are not fire resistant. It's true, titans
are great pets, but they eat so are vulnerable to shapeshifter
corpses.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 5, 9:34 am, Carl <carlhnel....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:

> Despite
> my typical dislike of liches as pets, I can see how for a pacifist one
> might be perfect given their ability to heal themselves, teleport to
> you, and resist magic. But how well liches would do on the planes, I
> do not know given that they are not fire resistant.

Arch liches are fire resistant. And if you tame or poly-up a lower
level lich, it may grow into an arch eventually. Though the one time I
had one as a pet, it got confused and killed me with touch of death (I
wasn't magic resistant yet...)

- funcrunch
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 5, 3:28 pm, funcrunch <web-goog....DeleteThis@funcrunch.org> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 9:34 am, Carl <carlhnel....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Despite
> > my typical dislike of liches as pets, I can see how for a pacifist one
> > might be perfect given their ability to heal themselves, teleport to
> > you, and resist magic. But how well liches would do on the planes, I
> > do not know given that they are not fire resistant.
>
> Arch liches are fire resistant. And if you tame or poly-up a lower
> level lich, it may grow into an arch eventually. Though the one time I
> had one as a pet, it got confused and killed me with touch of death (I
> wasn't magic resistant yet...)
>
Oh, yeah, I just checked the spoilers and Arch-liches are resistant
to: FCsep.
Not too shabby! Fire, cold, sleep, electricity and poison. Too bad
their 5d6 attack is cold based.

I've had similar experiences with liches, and I make it a priority to
give formidable pets a unicorn horn.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Dec 25 2007, 1:36 am, Michiel Helvensteijn <nom....RemoveThis@please.com>
wrote:
[snip]
>
> Anyway, good luck. I admire your patience. Have you worked out how many
> times you can expect to start over just because of the RNG?
>

I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension. I just now rerolled my
1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12. Of those 1000, there were 36 games
that I started with sufficient starting gear and tried to play. At
first I was only playing if I had a ring of slow digestion _and_ one
of: aring of polymorph control, a ring of polymorph, or a wand of
polymorph. Lately though I've been playing if I at least start with a
ring of slow digestion, as I'm getting tired of watching all of these
games go by as "escaped". 12 of my 36 games were quit/suicided from
losing pacifist conduct due to a bump kill. Most of the rest were
just because of the natural hazards of playing as a pacifist: trap
doors, trapped in a corridor, bats, etc. Of those 36 there were only
2 where I acquired all 3 rings that I needed, but I did not know it
until my inventory was identified after death. I'm hoping someday to
survive past turn 17,000 but so far ... not so good!

(My apologies to everyone on NAO for filling up the 'Most Recent Game'
log!)
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

Carl wrote:

> I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension. I just now rerolled my
> 1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12. Of those 1000, there were 36 games
> that I started with sufficient starting gear and tried to play. At
> first I was only playing if I had a ring of slow digestion _and_ one
> of: aring of polymorph control, a ring of polymorph, or a wand of
> polymorph. Lately though I've been playing if I at least start with a
> ring of slow digestion, as I'm getting tired of watching all of these
> games go by as "escaped". 12 of my 36 games were quit/suicided from
> losing pacifist conduct due to a bump kill. Most of the rest were
> just because of the natural hazards of playing as a pacifist: trap
> doors, trapped in a corridor, bats, etc. Of those 36 there were only
> 2 where I acquired all 3 rings that I needed, but I did not know it
> until my inventory was identified after death. I'm hoping someday to
> survive past turn 17,000 but so far ... not so good!

This seems like just another game of patience.

Topi 'Mind if I stick collecting all artifacts.' Linkala
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 8, 2:08 pm, Carl <carlhnel... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension. I just now rerolled my
> 1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12.

Ouch. Did you lose your game with the pet black dragon? Starting with
=oSD and +oCharm is fantastic, though you're right -- the int 16
really bites hard.

I've been playing pacifist wizards lately, so you totally have my
sympathies!

Please keep us updated -- my current pacifist game just found its
first /oWishing, so I'll probably ascend this one, though afterwards
I'm tempted to attempt a 12-conduct with you.

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

--clint
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 9, 4:34 am, Topi Linkala <n... RemoveThis @iki.fi> wrote:
> Carl wrote:
> > I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension.  I just now rerolled my
> > 1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12.  Of those 1000, there were 36 games
> > that I started with sufficient starting gear and tried to play.  At
> > first I was only playing if I had a ring of slow digestion _and_ one
> > of: aring of polymorph control, a ring of polymorph, or a wand of
> > polymorph.  Lately though I've been playing if I at least start with a
> > ring of slow digestion, as I'm getting tired of watching all of these
> > games go by as "escaped".  12 of my 36 games were quit/suicided from
> > losing pacifist conduct due to a bump kill.  Most of the rest were
> > just because of the natural hazards of playing as a pacifist: trap
> > doors, trapped in a corridor, bats, etc.  Of those 36 there were only
> > 2 where I acquired all 3 rings that I needed, but I did not know it
> > until my inventory was identified after death.  I'm hoping someday to
> > survive past turn 17,000 but so far ... not so good!
>
> This seems like just another game of patience.
>
True, patience will probably be a big portion of it, but I feel that's
true in varying degrees for any game of Nethack. Also, luck will play
a big role, and on top of all of that I'll need to play well.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 10, 7:46 am, HanClinto <HanCli....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 8, 2:08 pm, Carl <carlhnel....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension.  I just now rerolled my
> > 1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12.
>
> Ouch. Did you lose your game with the pet black dragon? Starting with
> =oSD and +oCharm is fantastic, though you're right -- the int 16
> really bites hard.

Yes that hero died to a YA_very_SD. I hate losing the good starting
rolls, very annoying. There were 2 good ones that died really close
to each other.
The first one, where I started with a =oSD and +oCharmMonster, I ended
up with a black dragon from a polytrap. Well, I went into Sokoban but
a monster (garter snake under an object) was blocking a boulder in the
bottom level of Soko. So I force bolted the boulder but accidentally
took out 2 boulders instead of just 1. Well, that left me 1 boulder
short and I could not get my black dragon up to Soko level 2.
Although he was next to me, he was trapped in the pit and would fall
back in the moment he got out. I went upstairs and tamed a nymph and
a gnome. Then I tried to get clever and tame 2 monsters at once in
the corridor ... too bad I had not noticed my PW was only 12.
DYWYPI?
In a second good-start-gone-YASD I was clearing out Soko but I fat-
fingered and fell down the pit, so I had to run pet-less to the
upstairs but a monkey followed me and had me trapped on the upstairs,
so I went up but a red mold was blocking the way out of the
downstairs! I waited several thousand turns for my pet to make his
way through Sokoban to free me but he never came around the corner,
though I could hear him.

>
> I've been playing pacifist wizards lately, so you totally have my
> sympathies!
>
> Please keep us updated -- my current pacifist game just found its
> first /oWishing, so I'll probably ascend this one, though afterwards
> I'm tempted to attempt a 12-conduct with you.

Good luck/skill! If you're playing on NAO, I'd like to watch the
ttyrec. Please do try a 12-conduct, this is new territory for me and
I can use any help that I can get. The right anecdote just might
contain the piece of advice that I need.
>
> Looking forward to hearing more from you!
Thanks!
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 14, 11:57 am, Michiel Helvensteijn <nom....DeleteThis@please.com> wrote:
> Carl wrote:
> >> Anyway, good luck. I admire your patience. Have you worked out how many
> >> times you can expect to start over just because of the RNG?
>
> > I'm still working on a 12-conduct ascension.  I just now rerolled my
> > 1000th game on NAO as Tenaya12.
>
> That's madness.

Oh, it's not that bad, once I've rerolled 2 or 3 in a row, my fingers
have the muscle memory to repeat the action without having to think it
through.
>
> If you need to have good starting statistics and equipment, and are willing
> to reroll until you get what you need anyway (which is understandable, if
> you are attempting a 12-conduct ascension), you might as well hack the game
> to give you exactly what you want at the start of the game (within the RNG
> reach, of course). Or at least tweak the odds.

Well, I wanted to have it on a public server so that any "luck
modifying actions" will be there for all to see and also in case
someone wants to review the game for their own amusement or
edification. But you have given me an idea ... since I seem to be
doing so badly even with good starting equipment perhaps I need to try
my idea out in wizard mode or at least ascend a low-conduct pacifist
first.

>
> Of course, you play on a public server, so you can't really recompile the
> code. But maybe servers should support that 'feature'. It's better than
> rerolling 1000 games and polluting the 'most recent game' log. But it would
> have to be marked as such on the scoreboard, of course.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions? 

On Jan 14, 12:04 pm, Derek Ray <de....TakeThisOut@moot.its.only.a.spamtrap.org>
wrote:
> On 2008-01-14, Michiel Helvensteijn <nom....TakeThisOut@please.com> wrote:
>
> > Of course, you play on a public server, so you can't really recompile the
> > code. But maybe servers should support that 'feature'. It's better than
> > rerolling 1000 games and polluting the 'most recent game' log. But it would
> > have to be marked as such on the scoreboard, of course.
>
> That's a lot of code for a super-rare event (someone trying 12 conducts);
> especially since conducts are something you should be doing entirely
> within the 'normal' game parameters, which includes tolerating random
> starting equipment.  Tenaya12's record should reflect that it took him
> 'n' startscums to obtain the necessary equipment, as well as 'n' tries
> once he got that actual equipment -- and it will, so all's fine here.

Hopefully, if I ever manage to pull this off, the record will show
that with a not-too-uncommon starting set of equipment, sufficient in-
game luck, and sufficient skill, 12-conducts are possible, even
without finding a bones file.
>
> The 'most recent game' log isn't a problem; NAO's score-announce-bot
> routinely ignores any quits or escapes with fewer than 1000 points,
> entirely for the purpose of avoiding startscum spam.  And of course,
> none of the startscums make it onto the top 2,000 list.
>
> (Besides, one advantage of doing it on a public server is that there's a
> public record -- and no question that you _did_ do anything like
> 'arrange' for some fortuitous starting circumstances.)
>
True.
 >> Stay informed about: Are there any 12-conduct ascensions?